self-employed help

[houselikeashed]

So if my profit is £51k - I get no help from the government?
Is that right?

[Alwayscheerful]

Can anyone link to further detail or information eg what are the rules if your interest tips you slightly over the threshold? How is rental income taken into account?

[houselikeashed]

That's what really annoys me. Just the self employed being capped at 50k, not the employed.
(We have just spent our savings on a family emergency.)

[StatisticallyChallenged]

It's closer to 3k after tax and NI.

And why is that assumed (wrongly) for the self employed but not the employed?

[Eemamc]

But if you’re on £50k a year, you earn 4K a month.if you take a mortgage holiday, how much are you outlaying on bills every month? You really have nothing left over at all? I think it’s assumed that if you earn that much money, then you probably have enough to get you past the next few months. People earning 20k a year might not have much at the end of a month, but might be ok with a mortgage break. I wouldn’t characterise people earning over 50k as squeezed middle.... I’d keep that for those earning 20-35k. Earning too much for benefits, too little to save lots and have lots of luxuries

[Jellykat]

Thanks Snorkelface,, i've emailed the IPSE to ask my question now, as i also have 3 friends whose net profits were just under the tax threshold, so will wait for a reply, fingers crossed!

[MrsKypp]

MPs don't listen.

I emailed mine about 2 months ago asking whether anything was being planned to support vulnerable people once the virus hits. No reply.

My MP is a very prominent LibDem.

[houselikeashed]

questinngvole
You are so much more succinct than I am. I am so angry about the £50k cap for only self employed people. A gradual grading of support from that level of income for EVERYONE would make much more sense.
Have you written to your MP about this? You put the case very well.

[Questingvole]

This policy is obviously unfair on anyone self-employed earning over £50k (amongst others): (1) because there is no equivalent cap for employees placed on furlough; and (2) because there has been no attempt to graduate it. If you had an average income of £49,999 you get the full grant; if it was £50,001, you get nothing. That's a very, very expensive £2. If it is fair to discriminate against the wealthier self-employed (debatable, given that there's no cap for the employed), then remove the immediate cap and, if you want those with ample additional income regardless to get nothing, recoup it at the year end if their earnings for the year exceed given levels (which could easily be stepped, like income tax ). For some of us self-employed, our income is now zero due to mandatory lock-down measures, indeed earnings this year could actually be less than expenses. We get no support. But our employed staff placed on furlough get up to £30,000. And guess who will be paying for it all in future years. Are we all in this together? Are we? Really, Rishi?

[MrsKypp]

My brother and sister-in-law aren't going to receive a penny in help.

They work on zero-hour PAYE contracts combined with around 40% freelance.

That means under 50% freelance income so no help.

The PAYE contracts are short, so can't be furloughed.

This is a serious loophole and they can't be the only ones. I think the >50% rule is not right and that the government doesn't understand how a lot of people survive.

[Forgotten2020]

Alyic - but if those two jobs were well paid, you get 80% of earnings up to 2500. So someone with two contracts of employment for £37,500 for each part time job would get 2 x 2500. There is no limit saying the 80% if multiple jobs must in total be no more than £2500. I suspect it has been overlooked.

[Snorkelface]

Jellykat - I'm not sure the threshold element is taken into account. As always they've used different terminology than appears anywhere else but they've only mentioned trading profit.

[Dontreadtoomuchintothis]

For those wondering about Universal Credit waiting time, we applied last week and have a telephone appointment for 8th April after having ID verified online. I'm hoping that will be the final hurdle before our claim is finalised. Like so many others we've lost 3/4 of our income overnight- best wishes to everyone trying to sort out finances x

[Jellykat]

Am i right in thinking only Self Employed who earn over the tax threshold (and under £50,000) will get the grant?

My average profits for the last 5 years are just under the threshold

[Alyic]

I was self employed until 5th April 19, this tax year I've gone the books for the last two remaining people I work for (accountant). I knocked off self employment due to the ever increasing fees and grief that is money laundering regulations.

I will be furloughed for both these jobs but only at 80% of my earnings, not two lots of £2.5k

[Forgotten2020]

I’m not angry and I’m not a dentist - my husband is. What I am is sick with worry but thank you for the judgement. I have checked the terms of the scheme and it clearly states that if someone had more than one employment and is furloughed from both, then the 2500 limit applies to each employment. So it is entirely possible the government purse will be paying 5000 to one person. But they won’t pay 2500 to someone whose profits are over 50,000.

[zsazsajuju]

@Forgotten2020 I don’t think there are any plans to pay employees £5000 a month from the public purse. Employees don’t get to claim anything directly anyway, it’s their employers who must furlough them and pay them then reclaim the compensation. If their employer decides not to (as many have) they get nothing except any benefits they can claim.

[zsazsajuju]

@Forgotten2020 - you’re a very angry person. I do hope you’re not my dentist.

Even if you earn too much to claim direct financial income replacement, there are other help available, eg you can furlough your employees and the government will pay the 80%. I would highly doubt that dentists won’t just go back to their profession after this, but we will see. Did you do only NHS work?

[TPR93]

Yes I will be trying to file 19-20. I have been looking into it and I do have quite a few receipts for fuel and tools/ppe which I wasnt going to claim as I was working on the books for a firm and some costs recovered through them 2018-2019. Might give it a shot. what is the worst that could happen they turn me down?

[Snorkelface]

@TPR93 - that's a shame, keep thinking about it though, any costs still associated with 18-19 that fell under your Self Employment would still work - but clutching at straws at little. If there's any chance of a rebate due for 19-20 obviously file quickly after the April deadline and like Beetroot says it might count for something alongside your previous returns. They may still tweak the current rules because there's 11 months of self-employment left hanging since the 18-19 tax return, that's a lot of people with a lot of start up costs in 19-20 with nothing coming their way.

[StatisticallyChallenged]

There are a fair few areas where this is cutting out self employed. I understand the rationale but it's pretty rough.

Employees are only excluded if they started since 1st March for example whereas self employed need to have been so for over a year (to meet the requirements of having an 18/19 tax return and still being trading) and in reality it's probably closer to two years as anyone who went self employed from employment during 18/19 risks falling foul of the 50% rule

[Forgotten2020]

But under the employee scheme someone can get multiple amounts it says from the details - so an employee with 2 jobs both furloughed can get 5000 - or indeed any amount in theory if you have multiple employments. How this that fair?!!!!

[Cluelessbeetroot]

@TPR93 the financial year ends next week April 5th. So file for this year (Apr 2019 - Apr 2020) and submit this return alongside with perhaps the 17-18 one ?

[Hingeandbracket]

@SmileyClare I think you might be better starting a separate thread to ask for help on that - your post will get "lost" in this one.

[TPR93]

Snorkel face. No nothing did no self employed work what so ever in 2018-2019. I was working in prisons on the books. money wasnt much different between books and contracting so went with the books for the work van and holidays ect. Then mid april 2019 went back to self employment. So just missed out of a 2018-2019 tax return. Seriously gutted for this. Why did I just not stay self employed Instead of looking at extra benefits at the time!! I hope majority of folks affected have some good news to come out of this!

[SmileyClare]

I'm a self employed cleaner who was just about managing week to week on my money. I have £30 now to live on until June. Feeling fucking desperate.