'Essential' workers calling in 'sick'

[twinkletwinkle00]

What would you do?

My wife and I both work for businesses considered essential. She works for a bicycle company and I work for a food seller (online, specialised food so not a supermarket or anything along those lines).

We have two young children who aren't in nursery/school as we don't want them to be in contact with others if we can help it.

We're currently splitting our days and doing 3 each for our employers (one of us works on Saturday). We both work for small independent businesses with no cash flow issues, who realistically could shut up shop for a couple of months and get through fairly unscathed. Both our bosses want to keep making money which I understand but I really don't think it's fair for them to value cash over the health of their workers?

Would we be unreasonable to happen to come down with symptoms that require us to self-isolate? We could get a mortgage holiday and juuust scrape by on SSP. What would you do? I just don't feel it's right to put ourselves at risk like this. I wish our bosses would just close and take the government grant. I just feels so unfair.

Sorry if this should be in the coronavirus topic... I couldn't find it!!

I can't wait for testing of people currently self isolating

It's a priority, says the Chief Medical Officer

@Divebar thank you so much for your perspective on this - great food for thought.

A bike shop is probably necessary, if it does repairs/provide parts - a significant proportion of anaesthetists and ITU doctors get to work by bike...

I have to give you credit twinkletwinkle00 for taking it on the chin a little bit and not disappearing. It’s a really tough time and none of us really know how to navigate it

@Divebar it's been really good to hear other opinions and I appreciate everyone feels quite strongly about it!

@twinkletwinkle00 you’re welcome again. Every bit helps. :) I also like @Divebar’s turn of perspective. Good long term thinking.

I think the best part is that each if you are doing only 3 days in turns so there’s lots of opportunities to rest, recuperate, and restock the house if needed.

No you shouldn't do it. It's taking the piss out of people that have actually died. You could always pretend you have some other illness, cancer maybe. Do you think that would be an acceptable thing to do?

I get it. But don’t lie. Quit, On the basis there’s no provision for social distancing, take a mortgage holiday if needed, claim UC if needed .

It really is time that there was clarification about working. My DH is an engineering manager for a company that manufactures goods that is vital in health sector. His boss has had an abusive email from an employees wife for not shutting down today. The have sent all that can to wfm allowing there to be less people and more space, they've had a deep clean, provided plenty of hygiene equipment and practise SD. DH is just glad he's in a job still (for the moment). The government haven't asked them to shut and if they did they would all probably have no jobs to go back to. It seems him that everyones starting to feel like they can go home and get paid 80% of their wages. That isn't how thats supposed work unless its a business that has asked to be shut or is no longer able to keep staff on.

@AnyFucker Neither can I. I am ill in bed and would love to know if this is it. I am in the shielded group so have been really scared about getting it and it would be a relief to know this is as bad as it will get for me.

My dgs has to go to school everyday because his parents are key workers. If they don’t go they don’t get paid.
It’s tough but unfortunately it’s life at the moment.
In your case I’d be worried about feigning sickness and then later on actually really being ill.
Try not to worry too much and practice good hygiene.
It’s unknown territory for all of us.

I guess we could decontaminate her after work, change clothes, shower etc. you should botj be doing that as soon as you get home before going near each other. I'm sure she is quite capable of showering and changing her clothes herself, "we" (you and her? You her and the child) don't need to "decontaminate" her. The way you've written that has sent a bit of a chill down my spine!

@WaterOffADucksCrack you're reading far too much into that 😂

I'd rather take time off unpaid and try and struggle through than out myself and my family at risk.
Then do that ... nobody is denying that you are scared – most of the world is scared at the moment.

I don’t want to comment on whether your food business is essential but bike repair shops are absolutely essential where I am, one of my colleagues had to get a new tyre last week & many key workers will be dragging their old bike out of the shed because buses etc aren’t running. They will need servicing/repairs. People may even need to buy a bike to get them to work if shifts change or the colleague who gives them a lift comes down with CV ... Would you say a garage/mechanic had to close because nobody is buying cars?

Well, if your kid develops symptoms you'd both need to be off for two weeks. If, at the end of the two weeks, you both develop symptoms, you'd need to be off for a further week each. That buys you three weeks. After that though, I don't know what you do. Leave it a week and then have the other kid develop symptoms? Tbh I think they'll roll out the testing kits shortly so that people who don't have it can get back to work.

I appreciate you are anxious but the risk is low and I think you should sit tight for a bit longer. I would agree I can’t see how your work is totally essential but I don’t think lying will help. The problem will still be here in 2 weeks. Do take care though, there’s lots of support online for people with anxiety.

It just sounds awful!!

Jealous others get to be paid and be safe and we're forced into working for businesses that aren't essential and are putting our lives as well as the lives of our children at risk.

But even if you are at work, you're not being put at the same risk as frontline NHS staff, or even those of us who are looking after their children in schools, where it is very difficult to maintain social distancing.

I thought people with asthma had to self-isolate anyway?

I don't get all these people going on about fraud. Such a black and white view of morality.

And the comparison with doctors is silly. OP and wife are not doctors.

I have a news flash for you.
Neither of you is an essential worker.

How is a bike essential, hardly anyone I know has one?

Depends where you live though - in some cities it's a very popular form of transport.

I thought people with asthma had to self-isolate anyway?

No, not everybody with asthma, only those with more severe/brittle asthma. If it included everybody who has a blue reliever inhaler half the country would be in isolation!

Why do people keep trying to manipulate this situation for their own ends?

YABVU. No, you should not fake illness so you don’t have to work but still have income. That is either taking money you have not earned from your employer or from the state (I.e. taxpayers, at a time when there are a lot if extra demands in state finances). Essentially you are asking if it is ok to defraud your employer or the state- you must know the answer is “no”.

Are you absolutely sure that both businesses can really afford to stop trading for several months and pay all overheads and staff wages for the duration? I would have thought that there are very few businesses (even one with no cash flow issues when up and running) that could shut up shop for many months without any impact, so I have my doubts that your assessment of both businesses is entirely accurate.

You are also making a lot of assumptions about what your company may be entitled to claim in terms of state aid if they were to cease trading as you wish them to do. If your employer has as good reserves and cash flow as you think then they will may not be entitled to claim back 80% of your wages if you were to be furloughed, for instance.

I understand that you don’t agree with your employers’ choice to continue to operate as you feel they are “non-essential”. However, you don’t get to unilaterally make that decision. If you want to stop working you have a few choices (and I understand why some of those options are not likely to be viable financially):

1. quit your jobs and stay at home for as long as you deem necessary. You can claim benefits in due course and seek new employment when the crisis is over.
2. ask your work for unpaid leave for the duration- if you are not sick, then you can’t get SSP.
3. you speak to your employers regarding your concerns and see what they say- you never know, if things are as good for both businesses as you think, one or both may be happy to let you have time off on full or partial pay.
4. ask your employer to allow you to take some time as annual leave and the remainder as unpaid/reduced pay leave.

If you do try to claim sickness that may give you a few weeks, but won’t work for months on end. Then what is your plan? Go back for a short while and fake another set of symptoms? How long do you think you can spin that out for? Or will you be planning on wasting medical staff time with fake symptoms to get a medical line? Finally, are you prepared for what might happen if you are caught faking illness?

@twinkletwinkle00

Pay no attention to people dissing you like this poster above! ^

You are well within your rights to be worried and to WANT to do what you are suggesting. And ignore comments like 'stop trying to manipulate the situation for your own ends!'

@twinkletwinkle00

Pay no attention to people dissing you like this poster above! ^

You are well within your rights to be worried and to WANT to do what you are suggesting. And ignore comments like 'stop trying to manipulate the situation for your own ends!'

@twinkletwinkle00 YANBU.

And I bet the ones saying 'if your (non essential) business is forcing you to go in, then tough shit!' are the ones who are able to work from home. OR they don't work at all.

It's not the NHS staff saying it, they're too bloody busy!

I have heard of a few cases today, where a company has stayed open even though they don't need to and are not essential (just coz they want to put profits above the health of their employees.) It's fucking disgusting.

The companies are being given incentives and grants to enable them to pay their staff, so to force people in is just nasty.

It's totally understandable for you to want to stay home. Perfect common-sense if you ask me!

But as for self isolating now. Bit risky. I mean, what if you catch coronavirus in 2 weeks, and NEED to be off then?