that this whole crisis shows that EVERYONE ought to learn how to use technology?

[WhatTheHellHappenedArgh]

Just that really. I have divorced grandparents, both in their 80s. My gran uses whatsapp, shops online, has a laptop, has broadband internet. Obviously it's shitty for her not being able to go out right now but she was able to get all her shopping delivered no bother, can chat to us on skype/facetime, can use social media etc. So it has massively helped with her loneliness.

My grandfather, OTOH, who has a long term respiratory problem, has point blank refused to ever have the internet, learn how to use a mobile phone etc. With the result that he's now feeling extremely lonely and cut off from the rest of the world and we don't live anywhere near him so are unable to offer any practical help. Have to rely on volunteers which he hates and because he had no online shopping accounts we were unable to get him any slots at all.

I see it frequently on here that "old" people don't know how to use the internet, can't online shop etc, and my question is why? Isn't it incredibly patronising to assume they're incapable of doing and learning any of the above? And wouldn't have been so much better for them, in the middle of this current shower of shit, if they could?

A local secondary school near me has no IT suite in it at all, no computers for students and no IT lessons. Apparently the head doesn't think learning how to use computers is beneficial to the students. I see using computers as vital to 2020, especially for the younger generation, and refused to even consider the school for my dc for this very reason.
This whole covid19 situation exactly proves my point. I hope they reconsider

My mother is 94. Plays(ed) bridge at least five time a week, still produces 3 course meals etc, keeps tracks of her investments, does the Times crossword everyday but has never used a keyboard in her life. Hence she finds the on-line world very difficult. I’ve just managed to teach her solitaire on her iPad but without a deck of cards she’s lost. Is she really so unreasonable?

A local secondary school near me has no IT suite in it at all, no computers for students and no IT lessons.

In England? Isnt ICT on the National Curriculum? Or is this some fundy faith school?

YY @Suniscomingout its just a slyer way of having a go at pensioners.

I feel the same. My mum is mid 60s and refuses to engage in any form of technology except for the TV and radio. She is in the vulnerable group and lives alone. I am only 10 minutes away but have no idea how she is because I have no way of contacting her.

I've just set up a group chat on skype on my new laptop (with the help of my brother 250 miles away).
I'm 48

I’ve been FaceTiming my mum and dad. My mums phone is from the dark ages, but she loves her iPad. She’s been reading all the papers on it through the library app, she said she might not even bother to buy them anymore.

My 45 year old sister OTOH has a flip phone, won’t have a computer because ‘they’re free in the library’ is now really isolated because she’s hasn’t a clue what’s going on. She buys books and videos from charity shops, which she can’t Do now. She’s gone from one text every two weeks to every day asking me what’s open, what the latest is, when is it going to end.

Agree on the point about FB. As bad as it can be, it’s come into its own this last few weeks. Our local group has really stepped up and people are posting when shops are open, which supermarket has got what, offering to swap spare stuff with each other.

I can kind of understand an 80 year old. They'd have already been 55 years old when windows 95 came out. But really, I have trouble with anyone under the age of 70. But I'm getting more annoyed at my dd's forty year old teachers who send photos scribbled on the pack of a piece of scrap paper with homework rather than opening Microsoft word and providing something decent. And taking bad photos of worksheets. Why???!! Just get a scanning app. Honestly how have they not googled that?!?!

YABU - if you don't do something regularly it's difficult to learn a new skill. My DM is 89 and retired from an NHS job before IT was commonplace and wasn't used for patient records.

She has got a laptop and, at one time, used it to pick up minutes for a committee she was on but, because she's not involved with that group any more. she stopped using it and has forgotten how to because it's just not part of her life, she doesn't need it and she doesn't have the confidence to try. It would be useful but it's not her fault she's grown up in an era where it hasn't been necessary to use IT. She lives alone and is staying with a relative during this outbreak so she's not lonely.

@funnylittlefloozie nope not a faith school, just a bog standard comprehensive. Some rumour says it's because they can't find any IT teachers to hire, some say it's because the slt dont want to spend £200k on computers for them to go out of date in 5years. Either way, its shocking imo

I don't buy into the "facebook is evil" mantra, it is easy to avoid the bad stuff. If you're daft enough to accept 1000+ friend requests then more fool you. Only have people you know personally as friends, know your way round the security settings and don't post your address. Obviously

There is definitely an air of superiority in some people who refuse to use social media. But in many cases it stems from total fear

Well said PineappleDanish. I agree. Leaannb it is very clear that you have never used Facebook. Used properly and safely it is a very useful resource.

Saying that people are "refusing " to use "tech" is a bit rude. It's not compulsory and if people don't want to use it that's up to them. It's a choice. They are not stubborn children refusing to take their cod liver oil

No, it isn’t compulsory, but my SIL refuses to acknowledge that using modern technology will make her life easier. She won’t even use things like Skype or similar, and then complains she feels isolated. She refuses to help herself. She is in her 60s, has a laptop and knows how to use it.

A local secondary school near me has no IT suite in it at all, no computers for students and no IT lessons.

I find that difficult to believe. It is very short sighted of the head teacher. DD’s school used the VLE all the time to set homework.

I am only 10 minutes away but have no idea how she is because I have no way of contacting her

Why can’t you telephone her?

I would have thought that anyone under the age of 65 who has worked in an office would be PC literate, even if they don’t use social media.

Theres no excuse, you are never too old to learn. There is only willingness and having motivation to move with the times.

Not strictly true. My dad is 88 and his memory is fading; he can't actually learn anything new now. Doesn't seem to be dementia as such, just a kind of slowing down of the mind with old age.

I am in my 50s but struggle with a mobile phone due to joint trouble. Am really dreading having to do so much work on the laptop during lockdown as I know it will bring on chronic pain.

@Ginfordinner There are plenty of other resources to get real info from reliable sources on what's going on besides facebook. For instance local online newspapers,city,county and other goverment resources. On facebook all you get is gossip and drama. Nothing official

@Leannb I can’t think of anywhere else but Facebook I could have got info so quickly and easily for an elderly relative. Joined community group for their area, within minutes found a milkman, fruit & veg shop delivering, butchers delivering, chip shop delivering etc. All with recommendations, and info eg £10 minimum spend. Relative lives on street of all elderly neighbours. None use tech or social media. Very isolated and vulnerable as a result eg 80 year old going shopping as she has no one to help, no idea there were all these businesses locally who had adapted in last few days to assist.

I agree. Of course they can learn. I work with older people and some of them haven't left the 80s in terms of tech.

They write cheques, only have a landline and book things by post. So as a result that's how I have to work with them and it takes an age to do anything that should be a five minute job.

I just think "come on! Move with the times!"

My mother used to take a perverse pride in not using modern technology - no internet
no mobile phone. At the same time she would bemoan the fact that she didn't get the degree of contact with people that she desperately desired.

on Facebook all you get is gossip and drama. Nothing official

You are so wrong. Posters on the community pages often post screenshots from official sources, and other very useful information.

I only accept friendship requests from people I know, and who don't post rubbish and petty dramas, and I have reconnected with people I went to school with. And I keep in touch with several family members this way.

Of course Facebook and all social media platforms have their negative sides, but so do many things in life, but it isn't all negative. You just need to know how to make it work for you.

I don't think it's just stubbornness or personality type, but also to do with previous exposure /career paths etc.

All of my grandparents are dead now, all would have been from late eighties to mid nineties...

One side they retired late, close to 70, because they loved their jobs, had had professional/office careers and had been using computers at work for a good few years and therefore easily adapted to having pcs/tablets/mobiles at home.

The other side had retired early (or in my grandmother's case, not worked for a long time) and used no tech beyond a basic mobile.

@Ginfordinner I can't telephone my mum because she doesn't have a phone. Did you read what I wrote? All she has is a TV and a radio, no phone, no computer, nothing.

Sorry, I missed that TreeTop.
Not having a phone is very unusual these days.

@Ginfordinner it is so frustrating. My mum just refuses to even think about getting a phone. Even just a cheap basic one so we can keep in touch. She is very much stuck in the past when things were done by letter or face to face. Those things are not horrible things but at a time like this using technology is best.

Theres no excuse, you are never too old to learn. There is only willingness and having motivation to move with the times.

My MIL is locked down in a care home. Yes it would have been great if she could facetime but to be honest that ship sailed a long time ago - she can't manage to press 1 button on her phone to call my DH. With hindsight I am sure she would have made more effort to learn but she didn't so we are where we are - we cannot teach her now and she can't take in the information

I used to joke that my mum should get a job as a product tester for a big tech company. If something could survive yen minutes with her and not be broken, flashing random error codes or worse then it was a good product! She has done some daft things with technology over the years
And yet she's learned. Email, Facebook, WhatsApp. There was a family crisis a few years ago and my mum did, rather grudgingly, admit that having a smartphone made it much easier to keep everyone in the loop.
She's in her 70's now. Still would rather not 'do' technology but does because that's the world now.
I wonder how many people who've actively decided to not engage with technology are quietly regretting that now. How many of them are just expecting someone else to do all the work for them? That's the kicker for me. Someone else now has to go to a lot of effort to do stuff for them that they'd be able to do themselves if they weren't so stubborn.

Some of them may have tried to learn, and been put off. In my former job at the library there were occasional ‘silver surfer’ classes for a few, but they were run by a scruffy young bloke who evidently had no idea, or just couldn’t see, that some of them were incredibly nervous and needed very kind and patient handling. His manner was so offhand, it left a lot to be desired and certainly wouldn’t have inspired confidence in anyone nervous.

I found it frustrating since I knew I could have taught the basics rather better myself (incidentally I was at least as old as some of them) but unlike Scruff, I wasn’t officially trained to train.

OTOH I often did one to one with people who had no idea, and maybe had never touched a computer before - including the odd one who was much younger than me, and needed an email address and to apply online for a job.

I particularly remember one old boy, at least 80, who came in with a newspaper cutting with a link to something he was very interested in. He’d never touched a computer in his life, but he grasped the basics very quickly, and went off saying how wonderful it was, he was off to buy a computer PDQ! So satisfying.

He was the exception, though. At the other end there was a woman who needed an email address and chose an incredibly complicated, gobbledegook password (her evidently paranoid husband had chosen one that nobody would ever be able to guess!) which she refused to write down, despite my emphasising that unless she put it in exactly, it wouldn’t work.

And sure enough, after sitting with her for at least half an hour setting up her email, she couldn’t remember it. And I couldn’t spend another half hour with her, I was needed elsewhere. So frustrating.

All the elderly people I know (and am currently shopping for) are tech savvy to an extent. They’re emailing their shopping lists to me, downloading books etc.

Those who are not tech savvy are allowed to be that way - of course they are - but they can’t then whine about the consequences.