To think that anti-vaxers

[GladAllOver]

who are allowing measles to spread should not be permitted to have the Covid vaccine when it eventually arrives, unless they have the MMR jab too.

YABU.

The NHS treats people based on clinical need, not on whether they're "worthy" or not.

Why on earth would anyone so dim as to reject the MMR vaccine because of the alignment of the stars (or some other bullshit) suddenly wise up and believe in a COVID vaccine ?

They'll be busy typing (well more linking) to their crackpot "sources" about how it's all a conspiracy/big pharma/freemasons/5G/insert (or make up) as applicable.

That made me smile.

All that cognitive dissonance at work

If anything we should be heading more towards a legal requirement to vaccinate all.

Denying an anti vaxer a vaccine will just play right into their rhetoric.

Because anyone who refused the MMR will want to get the one for the Corona virus....

The NHS treats people based on clinical need, not on whether they're "worthy" or not

When the time comes and the NHS hasn't the capacity to treat all the people that will require treatment they will indeed be treating who the deem "worthy". Younger people will be chosen ahead of older people etc.

Have a read of what's happening in Italy currently.

@TellMeWhoTheVillainsAre you're wrong. They're not treating people based on worthiness, they're treating people who they have a realistic chance of saving based on resources.

Dreadful decisions which must be taken under extreme circumstances are in no way the same as withholding medical treatment because you disagree with someone's choice.

If anything we should be heading more towards a legal requirement to vaccinate all.

so much for bodily autonomy then. I would have thought on this site of all sites, that would be a sacred cow ?

Education, and a firm refusal to indulge peoples delusions would be a better way to go. Of course that would kill religion dead, so isn't really an option.

If you are stupid enough not to vaccinate, your genes really need taking out of the gene pool! Darwinism at its finest

OP you’re being ridiculous. I’m not an anti vaxer but I haven’t had the jab because I am in my 50s and had measles as a child. There are plenty of people like me how do you differentiate between is and people who have an objection because they don’t believe in it or are frightened for some reason.

If anyone WANTS to have a vaccine it shouldn’t be conditional (except on medical grounds obviously).

*On Thursday, Flavia Petrini, the president of the Italian College of Anesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care, said her group had issued guidelines on what to do in a period that bordered on wartime “catastrophe medicine.”

“In a context of grave shortage of health resources,” the guidelines say, intensive care should be given to “patients with the best chance of success” and those with the “best hope of life” should be prioritized.

The guidelines also say that in “in the interests of maximizing benefits for the largest number,” limits could be put on intensive care units to reserve scarce resources to those who have, first, “greater likelihood of survival and secondly who have more potential years of life.”*

They're also deciding between who has more potential years of life. So a 50 year old will be deemed more "worthy" of saving than a 70 year old, for example. And if the UK doesn't get a grip on this the NHS will reach a point where they have to make choices based on who is more worthy to save.

The decision won't be based on vaccinations, of course. But unfortunately, an 80 year old father and grandfather will be deemed less worthy than a 30 year old for example.

@TellMeWhoTheVillainsAre but analysing someone based on how likely they are to survive and how long they might live has nothing to do with their moral worthiness and whether you agree with their principles.

Italy is not withholding treatment because they don't believe people are morally sound.

OP you’re being ridiculous. I’m not an anti vaxer but I haven’t had the jab because I am in my 50s and had measles as a child.

There is no need to vaccinate everybody, if enough - say 95% - get vaccinated as a matter of course. The slack 5% can be people who might be more at risk of complications from a vaccine, or exhibit some other contraindications that make if medically advisable not to have a vaccination. (Bearing in mind this has to be weighed against the risks of the disease itself).

That's how it used to be. And nobody questioned it because hardly anybody died.

I would hope that antivaxxers have a wake up call. This is the real world and vaccines save lives

I would hope that antivaxxers have a wake up call

Why ? Children dying of measles wasn't enough. Even now they are probably busy hob nobbing with flat-earthers tutting at the conspiracy about a "global" pandemic which - as we all know - can't happen on a flat earth.

Jesus. You can't deny someone medical intervention just for being a fuckwit! Apart from anything, they'll be spreaders as well as potential casualties.

But surely anti vaxxers won’t want the vaccine anyway?

Jesus. You can't deny someone medical intervention just for being a fuckwit!

Has anyone told Jehovahs Witnesses ?

@TellMeWhoTheVillainsAre but analysing someone based on how likely they are to survive and how long they might live has nothing to do with their moral worthiness and whether you agree with their principles.

So very true. And that’s what makes these guidelines so unfair. I did mention earlier that my point wasn’t specifically to do with vaccination choice, but more to do with doctors getting to the point of having to decide whose life is “worthy” of saving. And going by the guideline criteria in Italy, my dad, who is 72 and still working and contributing positively to society both financially and practically will be deemed less worthy than 30 year old professional dole recipient with 6 children who know nothing about him!

Like it or not, if the UK doesn’t get a grip on this the NHS will treat based on who they deem worthy. And those that will be deemed worthy won’t be chosen because of their contribution to society, they’ll be chosen by their date of birth, or their underlying health conditions. Lots of people; parents, sons, daughters, grandparents, are going to die because people are not taking this seriously enough. If people start taking this seriously, less people will contract it, and less people will die unnecessarily. It really is that simple.

OP you’re being ridiculous. I’m not an anti vaxer but I haven’t had the jab because I am in my 50s and had measles as a child. There are plenty of people like me how do you differentiate between is and people who have an objection because they don’t believe in it or are frightened for some reason.
I referred to antivaxers - those who made a misguided decision not to have the MMR or equivalent separate injections. Someone like you who has a valid medical reason would naturally be exempt.

So people whose Parents decided not to get them vaccinated and who haven't chased it up, as an adult, get the green light to walk around for over two months infecting others?

How does that do the world any good?

How do we work it out for non British born people, who haven't realised that they can get the MMR, but might be travelling?

That's going to take more time and money, at a time when we have neither.

Also people in, Prisons, Mental Health Institutions, Residential homes?

So people whose Parents decided not to get them vaccinated and who haven't chased it up, as an adult, get the green light to walk around for over two months infecting others?

Or die. There are many possibilities.

DGRossetti

Don't know what you are on about as jehovahs witness are not anti vaxxers. They also do not deny medical treatment.

Only one kind of treatment is not allowed but there is literally dozens of things to mitigate this and they created the cell saver machine that hospitals around the world use to save many lives.

Don't know what you are on about as jehovahs witness are not anti vaxxers. They also do not deny medical treatment.

Oh grow up ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_and_blood_transfusions