Care home demanding more money.

[Mutunus]

Apologies for posting in AIBU but desperately need some advice and not sure where to post.
97 year old father in care home. He's been there 5 years. Poor soul doesn't have a life as such now, just stays in bed sleeping 23 hours a day.
Care home have now asked for an extra £250 a week to keep him, but I can't afford that.
3 other homes nearby but all charge much the same. Awaiting decision from council re; upping their contribution but not holding out much hope. Is there anything I can do to keep him there. I might have to consider a bank loan but the thought of him being there another 4 or 5 years is upsetting from a financial and quality of life point of view. Thankyou for reading

Try the Carers UK forum. They can give some really good advice on this sort of thing.

FIL had full CHC for just over 3 years.
It was not means tested and he continued to be paid his pension.

He was never violent or a risk to anyone. He simply came from hospital with an eating problem and start of dementia.
He was assessed every 6 months but there was no improvement.
We waited to be asked to contribute as his pension remained untouched. It never happened and we waited for a large bill when he died and again it wasn't required. Must depend on where you live.

And when. CHC was much easier to get once than it is now. How long ago are you talking @cabbageking?

1) You should not be topping up the care fees. If you find your father is eligible for CHC funding then you will not be able to do this anyway.

Under the new CHC guidleines the health authority can set a ceiling beyond which they will not pay - and you are then left in a top-up situation, exactly as with SSD.

I endorse the advice about contacting Beacon.

You do indeed have to fight and fight - and who feels like doing that when their DH (in my case) is slowly dying before your eyes. It is frankly cruel.

My dad is self funding in a home and he can't get CHC despite having Alzheimer's and vascular dementia. Not poorly enough. That's another thread.

I would ring social services op or age U.K. and try to get some help with this as the increase is huge and not something you should be paying. He may need another assessment. Or try speaking to the care home manager. You should not be paying this. I'm sorry your going through this.
It's so stressful but keep saying you can't pay this increase etc. Social services might be able to help you. Keep us updated.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

My relative received full CHC funding even though she was mobile.
However, she did have bad behavioural issues with her dementia and hallucinations. In my experience it is not the people that are bed bound that generally get it it's those that have real behavioural issues that mean they need a lot of monitoring and care.

My relative eventually went on to be sectioned (although she had received CHC funding before that) so she would have received Section 117 funding at that point in any case. We were very lucky (or unlucky as the case may be) that she fitted the very stringent criteria but I also made it very clear I would fight on every level for her to get the funding she was entitled to and I think that, as with a lot of things, the creaky gate gets the oil. We also live in a low population county so, although there are still serious budget issues for social services and the NHS we are not as badly affected as other areas with higher population density.

You should not be paying £70 a week out of your own money. Put a stop to that. You have no responsibility to fund your father's care yourself and I suspect your mum was guilted into it.

Update.
As suspected Mum originally volunteered the extra funds to keep Dad in the home - basically because he was underfunded at the time from LA for his particular needs for some reason. Had a meeting today with the home and I've agreed to pay £100 (instead of £70) to keep him there temporarily. Talked to the SW this morning and she's arranging a review in April. She feels that due to local gov't financial position extra money won't be forthcoming but on the other hand moving Dad will not be in his best interests. At least Dad is "safe" for the time being, which at the end of the day is all I want.
Again, many many thanks for your help and suggestions.

I'm glad you feel better but I don't understand why you've agreed to pay more? I know it's not easy but you don't seem to have taken on board the advice people who have been through it have given you. The local authority really aren't going to move your 93 year old father from his care home, they are just trying it on so that you cough up the balance. You can guarantee that in April they will ask you for more now that they know you are terrified he will be moved. They aren't your friends and it's not up to you to be funding your father's care, you aren't responsible for any agreement your mum signed. Tell the LA that if they attempt to move your 93 year old father from his home you will sell your story to the press. Honestly, you have to be harsh, it's the only way.

The local authority really aren't going to move your 93 year old father from his care home, they are just trying it on so that you cough up the balance. You can guarantee that in April they will ask you for more now that they know you are terrified he will be moved. They aren't your friends and it's not up to you to be funding your father's care

They really will. The vast majority of the time the social worker will put a convincing argument together for someone to stay put, but managers don't always agree and often people have to move anyway if where they are can no longer meet their needs.

They won't ask for more in April though. It's not them that's asked for the increase in the first place and they will already be taking the maximum contribution they can from his income.

I agree - they will move someone. The people who hold the purse strings are barely recognisable as human beings, and certainly do not care a jot.

I have had a bill from SSD finance since my OH died - I rang to explain to them that it was wrong as it was charging for days after he had died. I had a call back from a rather brusque and unpleasant man who did not care that I had just lost my husband.

Sorry, OP, they will move him if they deem it necessary. Here there’s a £650 a week gap between the cost of a good care home and the LA rate. None of the good ones take anymore except self funders and if your money runs out you’re gone because they’ve all got waiting lists.

I disagree, I know a lot of people who were threatened with having a relative moved, it's pretty standard practice. After advice they all kicked up a massive fuss except one - guess who was moved.

You have to be very determined and ruthless to get what you want for your loved ones when they enter the care system but you can get it. As I said above I got CHC funding when I was told it was impossible. I had to fight to get my relative sectioned so they could get the correct treatment as they were being messed about with medication. The whole process was exhausting and never-ending but I did get what was needed.

If his needs have changed, has he undergone a continuing health care checklist? Push for this if it has not happened.
Is he in a care home or nursing home?
Does he have any capital or savings? If not and you're struggling to pay the top ups it may be that you need to speak to adult social care and get them to find a provider for his needs within the budget they have offered.

May I appreciate your comment and I have taken on board the advice given but I'm between a rock and a hard place. The voluntary £70 payment was (as I understand it) already in place between the home and Mum to make up for a shortfall in payments. I've agreed to the extra £30 (bearing in mind they were asking for £250) because it buys me some time. The SW is on my side from the sound of it - so fingers crossed.

No problem Mutunus I really do understand you're in a very difficult position and really hope it all works out for you as I know how hard it is.

Haven’t rft but you are not responsible for your fathers debts
Don’t let them bully you into it

Please before you do anything or speak to anyone watch professor luke Clements video on social care
It helped me get chc for my mum for the 8 months before her death
It’s pretty much all you need
It’s in bite size chunks
Watch some. Make notes, then watch again
You need to familiarise yourself with the DSt

Remember a well met need is still a need
They do a three month review and try to take it off you
Just keep sticking to your mantra
And do stop paying the £70
They cannot force you’re

Mumsnet hq should make this a sticky, oh and of you get chc do not sign any contracts, the contract is between them and the nhs..not you

Mums care home wanted me to sign and I refused
If the sw decided mums needs had changed and the chc funding was to be withdrawn..then I would’ve had to pay
They didn’t like it
Tough

Oops..the link

My mum was similar mayday and I fought tooth and nail
Previous to that she was paying for her own care £95k she paid into the system..and she was not a rich woman
The care home wanted her out because her dementia made her aggressive
So she triggered a dst meeting
They robbed my aunt of Chc, but this time I was ready and armed to the teeth with all the info as posted above.

Every argument the sw came up with, me or my husband said..a well met need is still a need

It’s a very, very interesting video
Mnhq..should put it in a prominent place. So many people are robbed of their rights. My aunt paid £125k into the system and again was not a rich woman.

I never understand why on these threads Social Workers always get the blame for trying to withhold CHC.

CHC is a pot of money controlled by the NHS not the local authority. The social worker's role in the CHC process is to ensure that the NHS representative doing the assessment for it (usually a senior nurse) is considering all the relevant needs and to be there as the local authorities representative in that decision making process to satisfy the local authority that the person's needs are indeed primarily social care needs and not healthcare needs.

Most people aren't eligible for Continuing Healthcare funding because most of their needs can legally be met by social care under the Care Act eligibility domains. Some people may have some healthcare needs that fall outside what social care are legally allowed to provide and for these people there is often a 'funded nursing contribution' made by the NHS as a weekly contribution to their care to cover their healthcare needs.

People who's healthcare needs exceed the levels of nursing care that is covered by the funded nursing contribution are generally the people who may be eligible for CHC funding, because it indicates that they may have a primary healthcare need rather than a social care need.

I don't think the NHS and Social Care make things very clear at times which is what leads to people feeling they have been cheated out of something when in reality it's just a very convoluted system of determining a balance between Health and Social Care funding.

Agree with all that - a good summary.

The fly in the ointment however is that CHC assessors do all they can to avoid forking out money, and this leads to many injustices, including people not even being offered an assessment at all. My OH qualified - he did not get it. I know he qualified because I used to work in the field. I appealed and nothing done about it in 6 months, despite me knocking on their door endlessly. It has now become a retrospective appeal, as sadly my OH has died.