to not know what to do for DS? (Mental health issues)

[UnhappyDS]

My DS (12) is in the first year at secondary school and has been talking about wanting to die/commit suicide for the last couple of months. He's had some issues with anxiety before but has been doing well and seemed to be really happy when he started secondary school last term.

I've taken him to the GP who tried to refer him to CAMHS but I received a letter from the CAMHS team saying that they can't help him, despite him talking about wanting to commit suicide. The GP said that the service is so busy in our area they will only consider seeing a child who actually tries to kill themselves. Otherwise the GP just suggested getting him to do some sport or find something he enjoys doing. There was no suggestion of trying to diagnose him at all. I don't understand it - if an adult went with the same problem they would be assessed for depression and be given some kind of therapy/treatment, not told to get a hobby.

We went to see a counsellor but DS found it very difficult to talk to her and admitted afterwards that what he did say wasn't necessarily true, he just wanted to give her answers so she would stop asking him questions. He is very shy and finds it hard to talk to strangers so I'm not sure that this kind of therapy would help him. The counsellor said to bring him back if he asks to see her but that isn't likely. She did suggest that I get him assessed by a child psychologist to see if there is any underlying issue such as ADHD (possible) which could be exacerbating the problem, so he's on a waiting list for that.

I've also spoken to his tutor at school to make sure that school are aware but they didn't seem to have anything they can do to help apart from to tell him he can talk to them or go to the school nurse whenever he wants to - again, this isn't something that he would do out of choice because of his shyness.

In the meantime, I'm trying to make sure he gets enough exercise and fresh air and eats healthily, as well as keeping his routine after school quite fixed as that does seem to help, and limiting his screen time.

He has trouble sleeping sometimes and was up until 11.30 last night in tears telling me how much he wished he could die. He also told me that among his friendship group at school one child self-harms and a couple of them also talk about how much they want to die. I haven't met these children and didn't know any of this before. It sounds such an unhealthy set up.

I really don't know what to do to help him. I think I should talk to the school again about the children talking about suicide together to see if there is anything they can do to help with that. I don't know if I should tell them about DS's friend self-harming.

But apart from that I would like to feel I can do something practically that might be helpful. DS won't phone a helpline or even contact one online. He says he doesn't want to talk about it apart from to me. I'm struggling to keep myself strong for him but it breaks my heart to hear him so sad that he doesn't want to be alive and I feel completely helpless - I ended up in tears last night too.

Everything I've read online about mental health in children says 'talk to the GP' but that hasn't helped at all.

Is it worth me going back to the GP or maybe asking to see a different one? Perhaps a different kind of counsellor would be more useful if they focus on CBT stuff rather than asking him questions.

And what might be the best way to approach the school about the children talking about suicide? Is there anything they can do to help?

If anyone has had a similar experience or has got any helpful suggestions I'd really appreciate it.
Thank you.

My adult ds's both have mh issues. One was diagnosed bi polar mid 20 's and the other has tentatively attempted suicide at 25..

No issues presented at school.
However - if I was you I would consider removing from that school and the attitude of it's staff and behaviour of it's pupils. Neither is appropriate for your ds at this time...

I don't have any expertise OP but just wanted to offer some sympathy. My sister had a very similar story from a similar age with her son. It's really difficult to find the right approach. She has taken a day at a time and he is now 21 and in his third year at University. He still struggles and probably will for life but he is learning how to manage it- like any other illness.

When I first saw my doctor about my daughter’s problems aged nine he told me there was nowhere to refer her to. He was lying.

Seven years later we have had two major crises and CAMHS is about as much help as a damp lettuce.

Sometimes you don’t gel with a counsellor, perhaps try to find one who specialises in child mental health and even offer to go with your DS. Hugs

It’s so good that he can talk to you. Keep those lines of communication open. You must be so so worried.

Windy thank you and I'm sorry to hear of your DSs' problems.

I don't what I could do about school as it's the only one in the area but if things continue then removing him is an option I guess. I just would hate for him to go through the upheaval of starting all over again and not feeling any better.

Clean thank you for sharing your sister's experience. What did she do to get her DS help in the early days?

cats sorry to hear about your DD too. I hope she's doing ok. Is there anything you have found helpful?

Poppy I will have a look for children's counsellors but there don't seem to be too many in our area.

to all

Chocolate I am glad that he can talk to me but I do feel so helpless. I'm trying to be strong for him but I don't feel very strong today

Is he in the right school for him? How big is the school, and how good is the pastoral support? The GP may have a point about finding something he really enjoys outside school, it may not be a sport -you need to find something he would engage with. He might talk to you if you go for walks etc. Talking therapies don't sound ideal for him but I would push the GP to appeal against the rejection of the CAMHS referral. Has he mentioned any bullying at the new school? I would start researching other local schools in case you need to move him.

I wonder if he would do better with a structured programme rather than counselling. There is quite a lot online about building self esteem and challenging negative thoughts ( a sort of CBT adapted for kids). You could perhaps do some with him at home.

My DS’ secondary school ran a student well-being event recently which was really good and focussed on mental health, I will try and attach links they sent of websites which may be helpful.

Painted Thank you.

He is at a big school - about 10 classes per year. In theory the school seems to have a really good ethos and promotes the happiness of the children over and above everything else but it's beginning to seem that that might only apply if you're an alpha sporty go getting kind of child (who would probably be happy anywhere).

It's not like we're spoilt with options locally though and I can't afford to send him to private school but I will investigate other options in case that's where we end up.

I have asked him about bullying and I believe him when he says that's not an issue. But I do think the friendship dynamic sounds toxic - it can't be good for any of them really and I wonder what the school might be able to do about that, if anything.

I could certainly try doing something with DS at home about self esteem etc. But I do suspect that he would be unwilling to take it from me rather than a professional.

I have tried to encourage him with hobbies both in and out of school but he is quite reluctant. Left to his own devices he'd happily spend all of his time playing computer games, watching TV and talking to me! He tends to have quite short lived interests in things but I do insist he goes to a couple of clubs.

Turquoise thank you for the links. I might try talking to someone at Young Minds.

OP there are a few organisations who may be able to give you advice regarding this.

Youngminds has a helpline: 0808 802 5544

You could also speak to Rethink. A mental health charity with a specialised advice line.

Consider changing your GP or making a complaint to PALS.

The Mix is a counselling service for under 25s. They have a free telephone and webchat counselling service.

You can do a search at Youth Access to see what services are available in your area.

You’re welcome, they might just be able to give you more advice or help with recommendations. Good luck, it’s really hard when our children struggle and it often feels like there’s no real help out there. I agree about the friendship group not helping. It might be worth asking the school if they can talk to the year about it. The man who did the talk at my DS’ school does talks at schools round the country. He was previously suicidal himself so really connected with the students. He was from the Charlie Waller Memorial Trust. I wonder if it’s something your DS school would consider doing. Might be worth a try.

I forgot to mention Papryus a young people's suicide prevention charity.

Some schools have fine words about promoting pupil well being but the practice doesn't match. They really should be doing something about year 7s talking about self harm and suicide. In some areas someone from CAMHS will go into the school and advise. I would ask the school how they are addressing this and if they have any external help. School nurses sometimes get involved too (not necessarily with the individual child but from a health promotio angle). Even once you get to CAMHS the service is very hit and miss depending who you see, not necessarily what professional background they come from but which individual you get.

I've emailed DS's head of year and have asked what they might be able to do about the children talking about suicide together and have asked whether it might be worth getting someone from the Charlie Waller Memorial Trust to come and talk to them. Thank you for the suggestion - I think that's a really good idea, particularly if the children can see that someone who used to be suicidal is doing ok and life can get better.

Thank you

Yes he was really good and having been through those thoughts himself really connected with the students. They also did an evening talk for the parents too saying how we can support our children if they are feeling like this.

My daughter suffers from anxiety since she was 9, she is now almost 11 years old. I found my GP receptive to my concerns. He referred me to CAHMS, but like everyone elses experience on here so far, they said there was nothing they could do. I was passed details for a local counselling group and I self-referred my daughter to them. It has been helpful for her, but sadly her anxiety and OCD tendencies continue to develop as she gets older. It causes me a lot of concern so I can fully sympathise with how awful your situation must be, OP.

I would suggest calling NSPCC. There was an article in todays Metro paper where the NSPCC have released statistics on how children with suicidal tendencies have gone through the roof. So, I imagine they have done some research into this and may have some useful contacts for you (hopefully). I would also get a second opinion from a different GP. Children absolutely can be prescribed medication for depression and anxiety if its necessary, and its abhorrent to think they wont consider this option unless your son attempts suicide. I would go back there and not be leaving until someone took the matter as seriously as it warrants.

Sorry to hear about your son. Could you consider seeing a private Clinical Psychologist or CBT therapist?

Op, I really feel for you and your post resonated with me as my sisters DC has similar issues and is still having them. I've previously had some my issue with my own DC although not related to suicide as younger, which are at present more settled, and i got the input of an amazing cbt therapist that specializes is helping young people. I found his referral to camhs pretty useless and took too long. What area are you in, perhaps I could give you the details if you message me, anything I can do to help as I know how hard this all must be. Keep strong, keep talking to your DC and make sure he knows he can always come to you and you will get through this together.

It is not considered good practice for GPs to prescribe anti depressants etc to under 16s without the recommendation from a CAMHS psychiatrist. If CAMHS have bounced the referral back to the GP he should challenge this. In the area where I live school nurses , social workers etc can write into CAMHS in support of a GP referral. Schools can't refer but they often have links to CAHMS via early intervention services and could help .

Do you know if there is any sort of ‘early help’ social care service in your area? Where I am (large northern city) there is a team which supports families struggling in any way, a big part of what they do is supporting children in school who don’t meet the threshold for CAHMS but have behavioural or mental health issues. If not, it sounds like holding a meeting with the school would be beneficial. They may have staff in place (senior learning mentor or similar) to provide some 1-1 support out of lesson time.

You sounds like a good mum and like you are working hard for your son. It sounds very stressful.

This really resonates with me too - my ds2 is not yet 7 and has been having a lot of anxiety and dark thoughts - seems to have been triggered by bullying. The school have been supportive and he is on the waiting list for counselling at school (delivered by barnardos).
GP has referred us to CAMHS but we haven't yet been seen. This is probably the most stressful thing I've ever been through tbh - desperately worried about him , plus the impact on his siblings.

I do suspect an underlying issue with ds as he has a lot of difficulty processing and understanding emotions, plus some other behaviours consistent with higher functioning autism . We are waiting for assessment in that regard too.

I really worry for him and for what the future holds

I feel for you, it is difficult. Ds is 15, recently diagnosed with autism and has mental health difficulties. Camhs have also rejected his referral. He does not meet the criteria. Gp said his referral will only be accepted if he harms himself or attempts suicide (even then it may take more than one attempt for them to intervene). She did apologise on behalf of the NHS and said that she is sorry she can't help

He was refered to early help thorough the LA, he got 5 counselling session out of that. We paid for them and he's worse now than we he started them. Ds's school don't want to help, he goes on study leave soon so they will be happy to get rid of him. They have just been awful, I've asked them for help twice in the last fortnight, nothing.

I will be interested to see what suggestions there are on this thread.

Good luck unhappy 💐. Hope you can get
your Ds the help he needs. It's hard to know where to turn sometimes.