To feel vindicated by the D of H report, which confirms midwives are withholding epidurals?

[RevolutionofourTime]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/mar/03/women-in-labour-being-refused-epidurals-official-inquiry-finds

I was denied pain relief during my first labour for no reason whatsoever. When I complained to the head of midwifery, she encouraged me to try a home birth next time. 🤨 I have also witnessed other women in maternity ward being denied pain relief.

Despite this, I have seen it argued here time and again that midwives are not acting as gatekeepers or withholding proper pain relief in labour.

This report confirms what many of us know.

I will be curious to see if this will lead to changes- more specifically, to adherence to the Nice guidelines that it’s never too early and never too late for an epidural in labour.

Sorry should have said couldn't swallow his own spit.

The thought of having an epidural scares me more than giving birth.

When I read the article this morning I was shocked at how draconian and sexist it all seems. I'm glad to see this thread but really saddened to see how many women had such awful, and importantly, unnecessarily poor experiences.

I am due to give birth to my first in a few weeks and this thread has really got me thinking. My initial plan was to try for just water and G&A but go for an epidural if the pain got too much (as it's first labour, I've no idea how I will handle the pain so wanted to leave that option open) but now after reading the responses on this thread, I'm very tempted to just go straight for epidural in my birth plan so there is more of a chance of me getting it.

Weighing up the risks, I would much rather risk a slightly longer delivery than possibly be unable to bond with my baby due to the trauma of a very painful birth.

The thought of having an epidural scares me more than giving birth

It did me too, but after three days of labour I'd had enough with the pain, or rather, the effort of dealing with the pain. It's not called labour for nothing.

I was very fortunate that my midwife was very in favour of pain relief and suggested that I might want an epidural as was being put on the drip for induction (I was 4cm and had my waters broken). She was prepared to get it put in before I had the drip but I said no, I'd rather try without first. As soon as I said I'd changed my mind about 2 hours later she had the anaesthetist there pretty much straight away. I'm horrified to hear that women are being denied pain relief when it's readily available, but I suppose in lots of ways it doesn't surprise me, which is sad!

Was 24 when gave birth and was treated like a child who didn't have a clue by the senior midwife on duty. An epidural was in my birthing plan, I was on my hands and knees in agony and begged for one, was told no it's too late now. Not long after I was told to start pushing, turns out I was only 8cm so ended up with a swollen cervix, the senior midwife came and checked me and said "oh well, she'll have to have one now won't she" I felt like I was such a burden!!

@Namechangexyz1 I had the same thing from a lumbar puncture knocked me flat for 6 weeks. Spent a week in hospital unable to move without throwing up, screaming in pain and severely dehydrated because of it. When I was Pregnant I told my Partner that in uncertain terms and no matter how much pain I was in would I be having an epidural. Didn't need it in the end because I lost the Baby at 9 weeks

After reading that I feel like hugging the two midwives I had for my DS’s birth!

I was induced and had pain options explained to me and was told to raise it anytime if I wanted to. The first midwife also checked my understanding of it all and made clear pros and cons (eg I would not be able to stay in the position I was finding most comfortable- epidural meant staying on the bed).

I lasted 4 hours then she said clearly I was finding it painful, was there any particular reason I was not asking for an epidural? When I said well, I thought I should save it for when things got really bad she said Oh bless you sweetie, that’s not how it works, if you are really hurting now, have it now. decided to have the epidural

The NHS cannot cope. It's not just in maternity care, look at current A&E waiting times. There are patients being cared for on trolleys in corridors. Operations are delayed, there are no beds available on wards. Staff are under huge amounts of pressure. The system is on its knees.

I'm not sure I can think of an area of the NHS where people have exactly what they want, when they want it.

That aside, there is absolutely no excuse for midwives not believing/respecting women when they say they need pain relief.

Yeaaahhh, drunken idiots and cretins who turn up with a 'slightly swollen finger' get seen in A&E, so labouring women should put up with the fucking agony of childbirth and not make a fuss?

Nah, I don't think so.

If you want the epidural, demand it. Don't trust a word the midwife says if she says it's too late. Kick off and demand it for yourself. Don't be afraid of being rude, loud and difficult. It is your fucking right to have one if you want one.

I was also told it was too late. Ended up with ds getting stuck at his shoulders, then ventouse and ds's head badly mishaped. During labour Midwife said that I was not trying hard enough when pushing.

I'm not sure I can think of an area of the NHS where people have exactly what they want, when they want it.

I agree, but most of those situations aren’t an immediate issue. Yes, it sucks waiting months to have your gallbladder removed when youre in constant pain. But if you turn up with a gallbladder infection, they’re not going to say “well we will remove it tonight, but you don’t really need a GA, so you can only have one if an anaesthetist is free”.

You don’t get women dying or their babies dying because there aren’t enough anaesthetists to carry out the emcs they need.

Epidurals and similar (GA for hysteroscopy for example) are pushed down the list of priorities because they think women can just make do without them. They should not bloody need to make do. The NHS can find anaesthetists for all the other things they are needed for.

If more are needed, we have to put pressure on the government to fund it, not just accept it because it’s not essential. For many women they are essential and birth without them is horrifically traumatic. Not having access to them increases the risk of needing a GA, wherein the anaesthetist has to stay with the woman constantly, rather than being able to site it and move on to another patient. GAs come with greater risk too.

We need to stop accepting things as they are because the NHS is stretched. We need to fight for adequate care as a minimum.

But women can give birth without an epidural. You can't have your gallbladder removed without anaesthetics.

*some women

You can have a baby without an epidural, yes. But that baby is coming out one way or another, so it's not particularly a choice. So that should read really: some women who want epidurals during childbirth for a plethora of reasons are denied access to one, and give birth without appropriate pain relief somewhat against their will.

What you are saying directly contradicts the Nice guidelines, which state that You should be able to have an epidural at any point if you want one, including during the early stage of labour.

I think Nice really need to clarify this. When they talk about early labour are they meaning latent labour....so the Potentially stop/start stage which could take days. Firstly an epidural at this point raises your risk of pressure sores, UTIs and DVT. But I get that it’s all about informed choice and if women choose this knowing the risk then ok.

But more importantly women aren’t normally able to be admitted onto a labour ward for the latent stage. Limited rooms, limited beds, limited staff. Women In established labour take priority. If Nice/the govt want to double rooms and staffing then go for it. Until then it’s not achievable.

If Nice mean any woman should be able to have an epidural as early as she wants in established labour (or when being induced and the drip has started with some contractions on the go) I’d agree.

Some posters seem to really, really hate women.

But women can give birth without an epidural. You can't have your gallbladder removed without anaesthetics.

There are many medical or surgical procedures that you could have without an anaesthetic, but we don’t. This is no different from saying that you can’t have sedation for a colonoscopy or endoscopy because you don’t need one. Same for biopsies etc. You can have one without one, but you shouldn’t have to be made to do that.

I'd sue if an epidural was withheld from me.

A friend of mine made sure to mention that she is a medical negligence lawyer when they asked 'what do you do for work?' during the introductory chit chat on arrival at hospital. Strangely, she got whatever her heart desired and everyone made sure to be very nice to her indeed!

The one thing I was adant about was that if I had to have a vaginal birth, I was damn well having an epidural. Otherwise they'd better arrange a c section for me in advance. As it was I needed a section anyway, but I know so many women who were told it was too late for epidurals or were just fobbed off for hours on end.

But women can give birth without an epidural. You can't have your gallbladder removed without anaesthetics.

of course you can. You can also have your leg amputated without anaesthetics. And let's not get starting on a dental filling or a tooth removal.

If a medical professional is a psychopath and completely indifferent to the pain of his/her patients, how are they allowed to work in the first place!

Back when I had my first 1970s midwives were normally qualified nurses who had an extra 2 years training (could have been 18 months) to become midwives. Has the standard gone down now that they aren't usually nurses first? It just makes me wonder as none of the midwives I came across in the 1970s were anything like the ones described here. Or maybe I was just lucky?

I did have an issue with stitching, but that was a doctor, and it was horrific, I had fallen asleep and woke up to find my feet in stirrups and a doctor stitching me. I can't recommend it as a way to wake up. I had a home birth with the next one and my GP swore an oath he wouldn't let me suffer having stitches. I swear he gave me so much local I had a numb bum for days.

I also had a grumpy junior doctor when I was being induced, midwife asked him what was wrong with him and he said he'd had divorce papers arrive that morning. He wasn't a happy bunny.

Yes women can give birth without and epidural or any pain relief.

Dental work and surgery used to used to be perform without pain relief or anaesthesia but isn’t now. My dad was drunk and disclosed his elbow. No one suggested relocating his elbow without pain relief!

I wonder how much it cost the NHS to pay for counselling, trauma therapy and antidepressants for women who are traumatised due the lack of care they receive including uncontrolled pain.

I’m my case I only wanted gas and air and to get on the birth pool! I’m sure that I have cost the NHS a fair amount in the debrief and counselling they provided after my traumatic birth. In my case I complained to the Trust and they admitted that their care was not up to standard and there was no reason at all I was not given pain relief!

This is precisely why I had an elective c section on the NHS. If they treated women with dignity and respect during birth, elective c section and PND rates would plummet I am sure, thus saving the NHS cash in the longer term. Heard so many negative vagina birth stories and so few positive ones.

Yes I was effectively denied pain relief during my last birth. I had it written in my birth plan but it was totally ignored. Given the same two excuses as I've seen reported yet: at first "you're not fully in labour yet" , then moving on to "the anaesthetist is too busy".

It was a very painful but luckily relatively short birth. I was unsurprisingly not so friendly to the midwives afterwards.