Page 7 | AIBU to think why did this couple just get married

InTheSummerhouse · 03/03/2020 11:28

User - that is awful for your friend but should not have been a surprise.
If she had wanted to get married she could have but I imagine the partner was very well aware that it would possibly mean his kids got nothing. If she expected to inherit would she have been likely to then leave it all to them?

MaybeDoctor · 03/03/2020 11:30

I agree that any bereavement benefits should be focused around the children who have lost a parent. With regards to use of the term 'single', unfortunately he was legally single at the time of his death. This is what being un-married means.

You may love your DP to the moon and back, have a house and children together but he could still marry someone else without you even knowing!

Anyone who has lived in a shared house will know the potential pitfalls of becoming financially associated just by virtue of living together - debts/CCJs marked at that address. No government in their right mind would want to cause further problems in that area.

idontwanttogoooooooooooo · 03/03/2020 11:33

I'm not married and two children with someone I live with and have a mortgage with. I understand the risks and we have wills. People even married people don't think about death, but it's very important if unmarried with kids.

I did want to marry my partner, but he didn't want to. I did consider that I shouldn't have kids with him, but it was my opportunity to be a mum. I had spent time with him and he had always said he wanted marriage, kids we bought a flat. I felt at 35 I knew what I was doing. I wouldn't want to pressure him to marry me now. If anyone asks why we aren't married, I say I'm waiting to meet the right person ha, I really wouldn't want to marry him now, I guess I resent that, but overall I'm very happy with my children and situation. I have previously been married and divorced when younger ( but didn't have kids.)

datasgingercatspot · 03/03/2020 11:36

YANBU. Not at all, especially noow that civil partnership is available for all couples.

Alsohuman · 03/03/2020 11:37

A significant minority of women in relationships are better off than their partners. About 1/3rd or so

I’d like to see some concrete evidence for that before you start bandying accusations of sexism about.

viques · 03/03/2020 11:43

idontwanttogoooo

Having a will is no guarantee of anything. A will can be revoked in the twinkling of an eye. If you think it is giving you security then you have been misinformed.

Mind you, goes both ways, as you could mention to your partner.

BoreOfWhabylon · 03/03/2020 11:43

The woman in this story is a teacher in her 30s. She could well be a mumsnetter, god knows we see posts here far too often from suddenly bereaved mothers, turning to MN for support. She could well have posted here/be reading this. Her partner died within the last month.

From the article:

Laura is calling for a change in the law to protect families where couples are not married or in civil partnerships.

Here are the two changes she wants:

Being able to register someone as co-habiting couples when registering the death- not just single.

Co-habiting couples with children being able to access and having the same rights as those married such as the bereavement payment and other such support.

To support Laura's case you can sign her petition at Change.org.

Laura said: "It won't bring Nigel back to us, but if it means no one we has to go through this then at least it is something!"

There's a link to Laura's petition in the article - I won't post it here as MN will move the thread to the petitions

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/tragedy-teacher-finds-ambulance-treating-3854556

She's newly bereaved. She's trying to do something positive.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 03/03/2020 11:47

If people aren't prepared to accept the legal responsibilities of marriage, why should they expect the legal rights?

InTheSummerhouse · 03/03/2020 11:49

I along with everyone on here will have huge sympathy for her as a bereaved partner but not necessarily agree with her petition. Equating love/ feeling/sympathy, (or lack thereof) with legal rights and sensible legal measures is a recipe for disaster.

MarchDaffs · 03/03/2020 11:51

Laura could reasonably have expected access to the bereavement benefits in the final few months of her relationship, but that doesn't explain what they were planning to do for the first eight and a half years.

If anyone is reading who would struggle without speedy access to this benefit if bereaved and who isn't married, please don't rely on a change to the law being implemented promptly. We've got a government who, putting it bluntly, frown upon the independent judiciary, and two great big urgent policy priorities in the form of the coronavirus and Brexit. Don't include it in your plans until the law changes.

datasgingercatspot · 03/03/2020 11:52

Just because someone is bereaved does not mean the world has to agree with them, Bore . Plenty of us do not wish marital rights to be extended to couples living together, there is now civil partnership available to couples who chose to forgo marriage.

There are very good reasons for not extending marital/civil partnership rights to 'partners' and we have a system in place, marriage or civil partnership, in place to accrue those rights.

Babybel90 · 03/03/2020 11:52

Being able to register someone as co-habiting couples when registering the death- not just single.

I can’t see this happening because the deceased can’t agree to it, it would open up new avenues for fraud where people claim to be in a relationship to claim benefits they wouldn’t otherwise be entitled to and besides the deceased may not have considered themselves to be co-habiting or see the relationship as being a serious as the other partner does. What if they’ve only been co-habiting for a week or a year? You’d be taking rights away from their legal next of kin.

It’s a sad situation for her but the rules are in place for a reason and have been for centuries and the information is freely available to all.

If you want your relationship to be recognised legally then you have to register it legally through marriage or civil partnership.

Rocketinapocket · 03/03/2020 11:53

Laura has my sympathy, but that petition does not have my support. The law is clear and known and this is something people need to take in to account when having children.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 03/03/2020 11:53

From the article.
"I have had friends messaging me who are living with their partners who are now wanting to get married quickly just in case something terrible like this happens to them.

Yep that's exactly why people should b=get married. < rolls eyes>

I agree with an earlier poster who said if you love someone enough to have a child with them, then why don't you love them enough to marry them?

Marriage/ civil partnership isn't "just a piece of paper" - it confers legal rights and responsibilities and (very important) protects the children of the relationship in the event of death or separation.

ShesGotBetteDavisEyes · 03/03/2020 11:53

Although I am sympathetic to Laura, I couldn’t sign her petition as I don’t agree.
If you want the legal protection you need to get married. It’s a few hundred quid and a few hours out of your day if you don’t want a wedding.
If you don’t want to actively make that commitment then someone in the relationship is holding back for some reason IMO.

BoreOfWhabylon · 03/03/2020 11:54

Well, I don't disagree with you there but I felt the fact that she has started a petition was being missed and also some posts were a bit lacking in empathy.

Pentium85 · 03/03/2020 11:57

As someone who is a SAHM and not married, I find this thread highly amusing.

MarchDaffs · 03/03/2020 11:58

Her friends messaging her wanting to get married to protect themselves in case something like this happens to them is a good thing...

datasgingercatspot · 03/03/2020 12:00

Well, I don't disagree with you there but I felt the fact that she has started a petition was being missed and also some posts were a bit lacking in empathy.

She's newly bereaved and yet one of her earliest thoughts is over getting money from the government for living with someone and procreating without marriage but people who don't agree with her are 'lacking in empathy'?

Missillusioned · 03/03/2020 12:01

There is a flip side to cohabitation rights. If you give people the same rights on cohabitation as marriage, you give them the same responsibilities too. In effect you are marrying people off without their consent.

I was married, now divorced. I have children. I would deliberately not marry any future partner because I don't want them to have a claim on my estate, assets or earnings ahead of my children. I don't want this choice taken away from me.

datasgingercatspot · 03/03/2020 12:03

As someone who is a SAHM and not married, I find this thread highly amusing.

Yes, making oneself financially vulnerable by compromising earning capability and pension to enable their 'partner' if one is not independently wealthy is hilarious .

Pentium85 · 03/03/2020 12:05

Data

I’ve protected myself as much as possible financially, but I simply don’t believe in the idea of essentially being forced to get married.

DCOkeford · 03/03/2020 12:05

Its an uncomfortable fact that marriage as a concept is, on a population level, a force for good within society. However 'outdated' we like to think it is, the fact cannot be avoided that it promotes social cohesion, stability and (indirectly) boosts GDP

Furthermore, the outcomes for children raised in a home where the parents are married to each other are better across the board than they are for comparable households where the parents are not married to each other.

The State does have a responsibility to 'nudge' us into behaviours that are good for society, so restricting benefits like this to households where the parents are married to each other are, on a macro level, of benefit to us all.

I think we are in danger of becoming so woke on an individual level that we lose sight of the bigger picture sometimes.

While on the subject, I will say that in my decade of volunteering at an advice giving charity, I have never (and I do mean not even once) come across a woman who would not be better off married to her male partner than remaining unmarried.

This admittedly does stem from the patriarchy, but it is important that we tackle the facts as they are not as we would like them be.

I'm not suggesting that these women don't exist, but they are few, far between, and usually at the upper end of the socio-economic spectrum (hence not quite so in need of support)

InTheSummerhouse · 03/03/2020 12:07

if you love someone enough to have a child with them, then why don't you love them enough to marry them?
This is a huge part of the problem! It is not about love. It is about money.

If you were poor and someone was very rich and already had a child you might argue that you showed how much you loved them by NOT marrying them.

My previously mentioned friend was fed this line by her boyfriend who proposed in public with all the down on one knee shit. She was persuaded to marry him against the advice of her more sensible friends because "if you love someone.."
As I said - he got half her London house, she'd bought him a very expensive car which was considered a gift in the split and she lost half of all her money. (Bear in mind that she had lost both parents in her teens and had a health condition that prevented her from working full time). He - who came to the marriage with nothing but a lot of charm - left after four years with nearly a million pounds and a car.

It's about love - yeah right

DCOkeford · 03/03/2020 12:07

I would deliberately not marry any future partner because I don't want them to have a claim on my estate, assets or earnings ahead of my children. I don't want this choice taken away from me

Gosh, I've heard this one so many times!

If you write a will, this just ceases to be an issue.