The Gig economy, self employment and self isolation

[chomalungma]

15% of people are now self employed
Many others in 'employment' are on zero hours contracts, gig economy work etc with little sick pay.

Living from pay cheque to pay cheque.

It's going to be very hard for many people if they have to self isolate in such a situation. 2 weeks with potentially no income could be devastating.

I am sure some people will mention critical illness cover. It's expensive and I don't know how it would operate under such conditions.

This is a concern in the US as well.

edition.cnn.com/2020/02/29/success/unpaid-sick-leave-coronavirus/index.html?utm_content=2020-03-02T02%3A35%3A05&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twCNN&utm_term=link

Over a 1/4 of workers don't get paid sick leave in the USA.

And that figure goes up in service industries

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The government is urging people who are sick to stay at home to help prevent the spread of coronavirus. But for workers who don't have paid sick leave, staying home when they aren't feeling well can be financially devastating.
"Missing a day of work can be financially catastrophic for them and mean the difference between making rent or not, making a car payment or not or feeding their family or not," said attorney Donna Ballman, who heads an employee advocacy law firm in Florida.
There is no federal law requiring companies to provide paid sick leave and almost a quarter of all US workers don't get it, according to 2019 government data.

Who's not getting paid sick leave
More than half of private sector workers in the leisure and hospitality industries, which tend to have a lot of face-to-face time with the public at places like restaurants and hotels, don't have access to paid sick leave.
"We know that when people go in sick they infect other people and when we talk about lower-wage workers in the service sector who are handling food without paid sick leave and other benefits like health insurance, that is really dangerous and a public health concern," said C. Nicole Mason, president and CEO of the Institute for Women's Policy Research.

It's similar to the UK - with the gig economy and workers who may well be less likely to self isolate if they can't afford to. The same people who deliver your food, have zero hour contracts in shops etc

That was bad CNN formatting - try again

More than half of private sector workers in the leisure and hospitality industries, which tend to have a lot of face-to-face time with the public at places like restaurants and hotels, don't have access to paid sick leave.
"We know that when people go in sick they infect other people and when we talk about lower-wage workers in the service sector who are handling food without paid sick leave and other benefits like health insurance, that is really dangerous and a public health concern," said C. Nicole Mason, president and CEO of the Institute for Women's Policy Research.

It's similar to the UK - with the gig economy and workers who may well be less likely to self isolate if they can't afford to. The same people who deliver your food, have zero hour contracts in shops etc

GMB Union person on the radio making the same point. There appears to be an issue with sick pay and cleaners in the NHS who work for private companies and have poor sick pay conditions.

Be interesting to see how universal credits deal with this. They seem to call my working friend into their office at least once a month with no regard as to how she’s meant to get time of the work they are insisting she does.

What does happen if you are sick and are claiming benefits whilst looking for work? Especially if you are self isolating?

@chomalungma I believe you’d be fucked

Or of schools are forced to close, whilst workers will be allowed parental leave that would be unpaid, but business would struggle to make enough to cover overheads if no staff. Critical illness wouldn't pay out as for ost people it will be very similar to flu.

Such an outbreak does reveal the fragility of the economy.

The thread which inspired this about self isolating was an eye opener - the poorest in society were called selfish because they couldn't survive the 2 weeks loss of pay.
I voted but I wasn't going to comment because anyone who was trying to explain that food banks probably don't offer delivery's were torn a new one.

I haven't seen that thread, but it doesn't surprise me to hear that there was a complete lack of understanding about the lives and circumstances of many people.

it isn ot just the self employed. Unless you ahve a generous employed statutory sick pay only kicks in after day 3 off sick
"Statutory sick pay (SSP) is paid to employees who are too unwell and unable to work for a period of four days or more. Currently, the SSP rate for employees who are eligible is £94.25 per week, for up to 28 weeks".

Also the Government has said tehre is universal credit but that does not help people as it takes at least 6 weeks to be paid and people with a big mortgage etc might have assets which mean they cannot claim it for their 2 weeks or longer of self isolating.

On the other hand if we start to hand ou a new Cono-Pay payment because people are self isolating people will take 2 week holidays at home and pretend they are at risk just to get the state to pay them to stay at home.

Here's my AIBU on this:

AIBU to ask you to write to your MP and how financially hard it is for some people to self isolate. Th... http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3837203-to-ask-you-to-write-to-your-mp-and-how-financially-hard-it-is-for-some-people-to-self-isolate-the-common-good

I was wondering about this when Matt Hancock started talking about closing schools for two months. My children are thankfully older now, but how parents would manage that I've no idea. Single parent medical staff would be stuffed!
I presume China have arranged for people in lockdown areas to receive some form of income?

I suppose if there's a large amount affected people will just go into work as usual. I can understand why those with little money would need to continue.

There's no way I'd buy sickness insurance.

I had to claim on my travel insurance for a trip to A&E last year. The claim was textbook and legitimate. I've been dragged through an interminable battle just to get them to even look at my claim and they still haven't paid it. I get harassing letters from debt collectors working for the hospital. The whole thing is a complete nightmare.

I had never claimed on insurance before - though I've had contents insurance as long as I've been an adult of course. I had no idea it was such a crazy, corrupt racket. They simply do what they want (and the Ombudsman is no help and simply writes to you saying they are too busy to write to you.) They can just ignore you - there's NO comeback for you AT ALL. There's no one making sure insurance actually pays out when you have a problem.

Of course I still purchase (now just the cheapest possible) travel insurance for trips but my experience has completely put me off buying any kind of 'extra' insurance.

I tried on that thread, Doingthebox. It's all a load of virtue signalling and 'no excuses' and zero understanding of the reality the poor and working poor face wrt to self-isolation. I mean, just the one post about topping up leccy and gas meters was hilarious, with the textbook 'surely'. UC is routinely cut off when people fail to attend an appointment due to being in hospital but the poor and working poor (UC is a top up benefit) are supposed to self-isolate? There's also the same guff from the clueless government about 'working from home'. So many jobs are so far from that.

I wonder if the Government will address this at all. It is after all the people who voted for them who are at risk.

I'm arguing this very thing on that thread!! But apparently it's all OK. Because people can just catch up on their bills by paying a bit of arrears.
They can just ask their land lords for some leeway.

Because it's really just that simple.

By trying to discuss this. I'm scaremongering.

Yes, its, and no one lives in HMOs, or in rural areas with no Tesco or supermarket that does deliveries or has to use public transport to get to all services, etc. I'm surprised there hasn't been a clever clogs 'surely you can just cycle' response yet.

I'm self employed and have had all my work for March and some work in April cancelled. I have money set aside to pay my tax bill in July which I can use to live on, but won't be able now to make that money back by the time the payment is due. It's a very stressful situation to be in but I'll survive.

I wonder how accomodating HMRC will be over this.

Write to your MP to insist that the government address this.

I wonder how accomodating HMRC will be over this.

And the DWP when it comes to UC.

Gig economy is a good thing in this scenario in many ways. With more people working from home it's easier to self-isolate, surely.

The gig economy is not about working from home. Its about precarious work, zero hour contracts and little access to sick pay.