to ask you to write to your MP and how financially hard it is for some people to self isolate. The common good.

[bellinisurge]

Really struck by many voices on here saying they can't afford to sell isolate. At first I was a bit cross with them but I was wrong. Late bill payment can be a disaster for many. That's the least of it. Self isolation is for the common good. What if you can't afford to act in the common good.
Please write to your MP now. Ask them to pressure the government to make a statement about this. www.parliament.uk/get-involved/contact-your-mp/

So many typos, so little attention to detail. Ignore that, for once, and get emailing your MP

I'm glad you acknowledged this OP. It even goes all the way to the historical free range eggs V caged eggs, argument. Back when there was a big difference in price between the eggs, you had critism for buying the caged eggs when you were dirt poor and living hand to mouth.
The privileged in society couldn't wrap their heads around the simple fact that every penny counts when you are super poor and feeding your children took priority over the welfare of hens.
Sad but true.

Good point bellinisurge.

that anyone needs to be told this. It's obvious if you don't go to work, many won't get paid and they'll have a huge hole in their budget.

The same for all the 'they should just cancel X, Y and Z' comments like people shouldn't travel or go to crowded places. If people don't travel, a lot of the hotels, restaurants, leisure facilities, airports etc will lay people off and a lot of those won't get paid.

DP works in the entertainment industry and there's a lot of panic that they'll start cancelling festivals and concerts and a lot of the people who make the events happen won't get paid.

Fair enough to say that they need to stop the spread of Coronavirus, but the response needs to be proportionate and needs to take knock on consequences into account.

Equally, people could die. So far the government is not asking people to self isolate if there is a good chance of them carrying the disease and passing it on. Obviously it’s not great being poor or having an uncertain income stream. I really sympathise, I do. DH is sole earner at the moment and all the money comes from his business. Mass quarantine or quarantine of certain individuals critical to the business cold drive the business into administration and us into bankruptcy. That’s not a excuse for starting a pandemic though.

*not asking unless

YANBU
There are millions of working people with no spare at the end of the month
and little or no savings
They would be unable to pay rent or other essential bills if they lose pay, or are reduced to SSP

The risk is that some would just come into work, because losing pay would send them into a spiral of debt and possibly homelessness.
They could take the risk even if the govt chooses to bring in criminal penalties for not self-isolating

• so the stick won't work for all; we need the carrot, too:

imo, anyone who is officially told to self-isolate, or fulfills the automatic criteria to do so,
should receive their full pay - on their usual paydate - from govt funds

because:

1 ) There are many workers who don't receive any sick pay from their employer
and others who work for mean shits like Spoons who have said they won't give sick pay even if someone has been ordered to self-isolate

2. Others work for very small firms who could go broke if they had to pay a couple of workers to stay home.

I'm not sure what can be done to support the self-employed or small shopkeepers to self-isolate,
but at least supporting employees would be a start on this problem.

Hmm I have to say that if someone can afford a weeks holiday in Italy skiing or a long haul trip somewhere exotic then not sure why I as a net tax payer who wont be doing this should have to pick up the tab. Same goes for people in tenerife demanding to be flown back. No. you paid for your holiday, foreign travel is risky for all sorts of reasons and this is one of them.

If its a secondary UK case then fair enough we need to look at some form of proportionate compensation scheme but it needs to be based upon peoples general household income rather than a blanket "everyone who works gets back what they would have earned during these two weeks"

Not entirely sure I trust the government to do this well or properly as its taken them years to introduce both PIP and UC and we know how well that has gone.

i guess we need to dig into the archives and look at what happened under F and M although different it has some similarities.

One thing i wonder about is carers.
Say you are a carer for an elderly parent, you visit and care daily.
What happens ifyou have to SI?

Some folk would be counting their pennies on their deathbed 🤦🏻‍♀️

A public health emergency is not the time to worry that some people are getting paid to stay home,
when the alternative is that they spread a possible infection to the rest of the country

Apart from the tragedy of all the deaths, there are severe economic consequences if it gets out of hand in the UK
The FTSE has been crashing because of COVID and pension pots have lost about 5% already

Also, contrary to the belief of some
people living from pay cheque to pay cheque are very unlikely to be those who went abroad on holiday and brought it back

Carers:

The govt brought in emergency legislation when some of the first infected people threatened to break quarantine

If you are in quarantine or have to self-isolate, then you can't visit anyone, even if you are caring for them

Different of course if a whole area is in lockdown, when people would probably be allowed to move within the area.

If someone is genuinely dependent on carers, then alternatives would have to be organised, or presumably inform SS if someone would be left vulnerable

I think the real difficulty is the people who aren't having to self isolate themselves, but whose livelihoods will be affected by cancellations.

By which I mean- - it is easy enough for the government to put something in place for those who have to not work for two weeks - probably by asking employers to pay them and to then reimburse the employer. Or to use some form of emergency sick pay.

Far more difficult is those mentioned by an OP above - venue staff, restaurateurs, entertainers, wedding photographers, etc etc whose work may be cancelled at short notice, but who won't be eligible for sick pay/isolation pay/loss of earnings.

But yes, the government has to do something to help those in the former situation. I? worry, though, about those in the latter situation.

So what's the solution?

That’s not a excuse for starting a pandemic though

So single parent on zero hours. How does that person pay their rent, bills, childcare bills, feed the children? 2 weeks with no payment at all is a nightmare. Potentially more than 2 weeks if you end up sick.

The Government needs to guarantee benefit levels of income for people who would otherwise struggle to self isolate.

people living from pay cheque to pay cheque are very unlikely to be those who went abroad on holiday and brought it back Eh? What's that got to do with anything?

"If someone is genuinely dependent on carers, then alternatives would have to be organised, or presumably inform SS if someone would be left vulnerable"

The actual reality is that a lot of vulnerable people would have no support.

I do wonder if those criticising poorer people who cant self isolate voted for some of the policies that have led here.

a. PHE recommend that you self isolate in a spare room away from family members if possible. There are a lot less tenants able to do this as they have moved due to the bedroom tax.

b. UC claimants having to attend JC appointments (UC claimants both IN and OUT of work have to attend unless they have ENOUGH hours not to claim UC so they wouldnt have this problem anyway) No attendance = sanction.

I posed this question on another thread to someone who is training as a work coach.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3835338-Universal-Credit

YANBU, OP. At least on Mumsnet, the schadenfreude has spread as quickly as the coronavirus, including on this thread. “I’m not going on holiday, so why should anybody else be allowed to”. Seems as though some are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of the race to the bottom being accelerated by this.

Over 60s have been advised to avoid crowds but many of them are still working due to the state pension age being moved up.

I am under social services and have support workers in my home but I can only afford a certain numbers of hours per week and wonder how I would cope to self isolate if I had to? I definitely think this is a brilliant idea. Thanks so much *Bellini"

Looking at the "self isolation thread" I was struck by the possibility that if I somehow caught coronavirus I would not last long in terms of self isolating.

• food deliveries ask for minimum of £25 per delivery. I shop at Aldi and don't spend that per week. Nowhere near.

-I have pet guinea pigs- I need to go out there to get fresh veg for them and their hay and pellets. To those hwo woudl tell me I should not be having pets whilst on benefits, my GPs are like aunofficial "emotional support" animals for me due to health issues. -key meters for both gas and electric. This is necessary for me as cannot cope with bills and this is a way of controlling what I spend. -psycho therapy appointments, physiotherapy apppointments, appointments with GP

Seconded Bellini

Yes self isolation for lots of people will be very difficult for a huge range of different reasons. It will be just as difficult as when that person, plus potentially many others, fall ill and is unable to work or go about their normal life.

I've no idea what the solution is. At least isolation may reduce the number of people put in that situation.

Completely agree bellini, will write to my MP tomorrow. Thanks for the link.

GuineaSomethingGood
Do you have any spare money to stock up on dry food now?
If you have a freezer will the GP eat frozen veg?