Stalking other dogs

[itadakimas]

Posted in the pet section, but after a bit more traffic! please delete if this is spamming

Does anyone have any advice/experience in handling dogs that stalk other dogs?
I have a very reactive teenage husky that has taken to stalking dogs on walks. He is leashed. He becomes extremely fixated on lots of different things, but the stalking has me particularly perplexed. It's definitely not in a playful way - more of a predatory stalk.

If this makes sense, and anyone can help I'd be grateful. We are also working with a trainer, but would like some other perspectives.

I've not had a dog do this,an expert will answer soon. I wouldn't allow this behaviour to develop though, distract him and take him in the opposite direction.

Agree with distracting him and breaking his attention. If he’s fixated on something you need to turn around and not let it continue.

Do not allow this to continue as it will lead to leash reactivity. Get a clicker and reward for looking at the dog. Eventually your dog will look at you upon seeing another dog. Reward this.

brilliant, thank you for your replies.
We're working on impulse control daily, and the 'watch me' command. both are brilliant in the house and on property, however the big world is much more interesting than I am!
He's very responsive to clicker training, however with dogs - forget it. He's a hard one to figure out with rewards; he's a big foodie but will not respond if something else grabs his attention, regardless of the treat. Same with toys.
I usually manage to to dash off in another direction - I try to plan walks where there's escape routes. Also working on a 'get behind me' command as he can be a bit of a worrier too. Working with someone 1:1 tomorrow, just wanted a bit more insight or ideas.
Dogs are hard work! Thanks again for replying.

Have you joined reactive dogs uk on Facebook? I’m on there and it’s a good group full of good advice. Also have you considered BAT (behavioural adjustment training) training? Dog is on a long line and therefore thinks it is free ... principle is that the dog is allowed to make its own decisions based on how close it feels comfortable around other dogs. I can have my reactive dog in the park on a long line with other dogs around and she’s fine. I also use this to train whistle recall.

Also don’t under estimate the high value treat! My dog won’t work for kibble but will pay attention for broken up sausages!

I’m working on thresholds now. Gradually reducing the distance. Hope this helps ☺️

I think the stalking - which is not uncommon in reactive dogs - is an extension of the eye fixation.

The predatory sequence in dogs is:

• eye (see the thing you want to hunt)
• orient (turn towards it)
• stalk
• run
• catch
• kill
• dissect
• eat

As reactivity often makes dogs eye and orient I think some can then slip into stalk as a natural extension of that, even though hunting is not their intention. Kind of like muscle memory but for actions born out of instinct not experience.

Some reactive dogs will stare at another dog more fixedly then others and I suspect these are the ones more likely to stalk. Also those with that part of the hunting sequence that has been left in them more strongly, such as border collies.

Ultimately though I'm not sure it makes a big difference to your training approach - other than perhaps really working in encouraging him to break that eye concentration eg teaching "look at me". He'll probably need to break that focus on the dog to help him start to relax. A good IMDT or APBC behaviourist can really help with this.

Please muzzle this dog in public. If he manages to get loose then he could cause a lot of damage.

It sounds like you are doing the right things but it just takes time. You need to identify each time the distance at which his attention returns back to you/the treats and retreat to that distance every time. Hopefully, with endless repetitions, the distance will become shorter and shorter.

Do you use a special super tasty treat thats only used for clicker training? Something really stinky like a liver sausage chopped up?
It has to be something they love to eat, but only get with the clicker. That does help them focus when something more interesting comes along.

You need a behaviourist.
Preferably one with experience of high prey drive dog breeds and experience of fearful dogs.

The main thing is to make sure he never gets near other dogs.
I would consider muzzling him as back up incase he ever slips his collar as I suspect, though obviously don’t know for sure, that he will bite if he gets near enough.

There is a dog that I see very very rarely (fortunately) on walks that does this.
His idiot owner has it off leash, the dog is extremely dangerous, his owner isn’t much better tbh, very aggressive.
He has bitten my dog as she was walking away from him and will start stalking her from considerable distance away.

I have a reactive dog who is 5 and a half and she can be a bit of a dog stalker! We have no idea what mix of breeds she is but there's definitely some collie in her and if she were off lead (we don't let her off lead because she is unreliable) she would actually herd dogs rather than be reactive towards them. We've always assumed it as an extension of that.

For focus we found that while she is extremely treat driven at home, this fixation needed something a little bit more enticing, so we now have a tug toy that we take out on walks with us. If we see a dog or person (she's reactive to a variety of things) we can get her focus back on us and playing with the tug while walking past. Just for note, she doesn't play with toys at all at home but something about the tug focuses the nervous energy she has into something positive for her.

Another thing we've tried which works for us but is a little bit more awkward on a walk is using a Kong filled with peanut butter, licking can be relaxing for dogs plus she usually can't react with a mouthful of peanut butter. It's just awkward to carry and extend out to her because she's only about the size of a spaniel so I have to bend down to her.

@PissyPantsPeach - I'm not on Fb atm, but I'll probably join at some point. If I do, I'll join the reactive dogs one. I've not done BAT - He does have a long line and a harness that it can be attached to. Do you hold the line? He has NO recall, and he's an absolute escape artist, so if I can figure out a way of being able to hold his line (without him realising it) it's certainly something I'll be up for trying.
The treats, yes definitely. He's a bugger though - today during training he'd decided he didn't want hotdogs and wanted bacon; he's a bit trial and error with what he considers 'an acceptable treat'.

@EmeraldsAtDawn - I've just replied on the other thread! I'm sorry if this is confusing. I weren't sure if the pet section got a lot of views.

@pawsies - a muzzle is something I would use in a heartbeat if I thought we had no other option. I don't think we're quitethere yet, and I can ensure he wouldn't have the opportunity to get another dog.

@Booboostwo - yeah this is something, I'm trying to figure out. He's iffy with cars aswell, so I'm gauging where his car threshold is, as well as dogs. He's hard work! During training today, he stayed so focused on me, he didn't notice another dog sniffing his bum, so I'm hopeful!

@Lionsleepstonight - treats I do struggle with tbh. He's a bit fussy - foods he likes, he may decide he doesn't want them at that precise moment, and I've gone through phases where a certain treat, say liver, works, but then gave him so much (because it was the only damn thing he'd accept on walks) that he got bored. A friend actually suggested squirty cheese in a can - the noise is also a distraction. What high value treats do you use?

@frostedviolets - we started working with someone today, just had our first class . Yeah, there are definitely dumb ass dog owners around, I've undoubtedly been/am one at times. Mine is leashed all the time (recall? no), and i generally avoid other dogs that he's anything less than very friendly with. The stalking is horrible though - it freaked me out watching him tbh because it was like how a lion moves! He's never gotten close enough to a dog for it to cause any visible fear to the other dog or owner (from what i can tell), but yeah, definitely need it nipped in the bud. We live in an area too where EVERYONES' dogs are off lead. In general, mine looks happy and friendly (except when he's acting like an extra in The Lion King), so people don't seem to have any qualms about sending their dogs over. I've gotten better at telling them to, politely, collect their dog.

@LunaNova - yay, someone else that has a dog that thinks they're a lion! lol, it can be hard to interpret - when i first researched it, a lot of sources said it was to instigate play, but I'm not convinced it's play in my case. My dog's a foodie, and he plays at home, but he wont have toys outside. You're lucky you can take a rope with you! I've carried a variety of his around, including a mingin duck teddy thing, and he ignores it. Have you ever watched Flyball competitions? They use a tug rope a lot with the dogs there I think to calm them down after their run. Mine doesn't like peanut butter, but I might steal your idea and use a different filling. Maybe cream cheese or something, or pate?

Sorry for the essay, I appreciate all your replies. You've given me great advice, thanks a lot

You might find a headcollar gives you more control than a collar/harness.

@QuestionableMouse - We do have a Dogmatic that's a bit like power steering for him. It doesn't work in the typical sense of his head turning when pulling - his neck is too strong for it, but it makes his pulling anyway a bit more manageable.
He has a harness that I only use for running. Tbh we use a flat collar for most of his training, and the headcollar if I'm going to be walking him just for exercise

Mine does this, but not in an aggressive way (just looks bloody sinister ). Only ever with dogs she wants to play with, and generally they know her already. One of her friends is a husky and they waste a lot of valuable playing time stealthily creeping up on each other in plain view. Several other of her friends now copy her as well.

She's a lurcher, so I think it's just hardwired.

I don't mean to minimise your situation - but for some dogs it is just a weird quirk I think.

I know you mentioned he's not much into toys - does he get much opportunity to play with other dogs off lead, or is that something you don't want to risk?

@JesusInTheCabbageVan great name, Yeah, when I was reading about it, it said it could be play, or that the dog is nervous, or a predation behaviour. Mine has done one where it was definitely to instigate play - more like a moving play bow, with his butt in the air, tail wagging, not very stealthy.
It's hard isn't it because dog behaviour isn't always clear-cut; but to be safe I'm going to interpret what he's been doing as predatory. i'd rather misread it as that and get it sorted to be safe.

I'm now imagining a bunch of dogs 'stalking' each other in a park, not remotely stealthily your dog sounds like she has good fun!

no, mine's a bit of a billy no mates
he has a couple of dog-friends that he gets along with, but we don't see them much. He's a 30kg, big bouncy dunce at times, and I'm really wary of him 'befriending' small dogs as he's boisterous. The friends he does have are older dogs that wont put up with his nonsense.
I don't let him off as I'd never see him again. His recall is really hit-or-miss, and with the stalking I wouldn't risk it. I've found a place that rents enclosed paddocks, so I might see if his buddies are up for that. When I'm sure he isn't going to eat them

Thanks

Lurchers and sighthounds are a lot less complex, to be fair. Only room for one thought at a time, and brain activity seems to flatline entirely when they're running/playing. I've had a few instances of her running full tilt into trees, fences and other dogs.

The husky owner I know has to be in a constant state of hypervigilance, even though her dog is generally trustworthy. It does sound exhausting! Plus a lot of people seem quick to demonise huskies and husky owners, sadly.

Gah, maybe a crash helmet for your dog?

I do find it difficult to be 'aware' but not anxious or stressy. I'm trying to find a good balance because of it travelling down the lead. I can be a bit of a worrier in terms of upsetting other people. I try and be really considerate and sometimes it's at the risk of affecting my own dog. I didn't like telling other people to call their dogs away at first I'd just try and escape. I've got better at that though.

We're demonised?! Really?! I've never witnessed that. I'm either very sheltered or very unobservant

Home made liver cake not envy!

But only used for training and walks so it keeps its high value to the pooch. Cant do a link but if you google there are plenty of recipes.

Ooo ok. Can't say I've heard of it, but he likes liver.

Btw I have no idea why the AIBU vote thing is on

I think a lot of people are slightly wary of huskies. Certainly I've heard a lot of the other dog walkers sniping about how rough the husky is, when mine is definitely a lot wilder (though maybe they bitch about me behind my back too ).

Hahaha, in that case they're right to be cautious; unless they appreciate body slams as way of affection. They are very 'exuberant' dogs.

Oh yes, and the spin-round-bum-slam manoeuvre! Ddog's friend can knock another dog a good few metres with that one

Pfft, yeah they're like hurricanes on legs. Mental, mental dogs. And cat-like agility!