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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to take the Watchtower and send Jehova's Witnesses away with parish magazine?

378 replies

Elasticwoman · 05/09/2007 22:34

They said: hey, you've got to take a Watchtower, it was a deal!

But I welshed on it.

Was I unreasonable, and what do other people do when the God Squad come to their door trying to sell God to them?

OP posts:
Aimsmum · 06/09/2007 16:08

Message withdrawn

LazyLinePainterJane · 06/09/2007 16:08

and, Aimsmum, madamez did not say "all JW are dumbfucks".....she meant ALL religion.

alicet · 06/09/2007 16:09

I am with Aimsmum.

Can't understand why someone would choose not to be given blood if it is needed to save their life but it is their decision... And no different in some cases than people who refuse medical interventions that might save them for all makker of reasons - life saving surgery, chemotherapy etc etc.

HorseyWoman · 06/09/2007 16:10

I'm not saying it's wrong, I just want to know what happens if that happens to a person who is a JW. They die, I guess?

UnquietDad · 06/09/2007 16:10

lisa - the JWs I have spoken to at the door have only ever brough copies of their pamphlets, The Watchtower and the Bible. Is that what you mean, or is there something else I am missing?

I'd be quite happy to write a list of questions if I thought I'd get sensible answers, but I know that they will be looking at the "answers" from within the parameters of their faith so they will never satisfy me. It's like trying to debate with someone who is only communicating in a language you don't speak.

lisad123 · 06/09/2007 16:11

HorseyWoman: I will try and answer but as said Im not a doctor. There is a certain amount of blood that can be lost without needing a transfusion, and saline can be used to help build volume so the blood has time to repenish itsself.
Cell savers can help as even in emergency sugery they are have to suck your blood to find tears and holes.
I hope that makes sense.

lisad123 · 06/09/2007 16:14

UQD, they do use their own stuff and the bible but i know of at least one none JW book/dvd which i have used. Will see if i could find link if it helps

alicet · 06/09/2007 16:14

And lazylinepainterjane what I was referring to was your post where you stated 'I simply do not think it is acceptable for people to knock on my door at any time that they please, despite the fact that I have a sign asking them not to, and push their brand of religion onto me. If smeone insists on doing so, then I feel at ease being rude to them on an internet forum.'

I'm not sure that you can be sure that the people that knocked on your door are here today on this forum. Which is what I am getting at. I think in the circumstances above the people who persist in knocking on your door DO deserve everyhing they get from you as they are being disrespectful.

Unless however you know that the people on this forum are the ones who are doing this I don't think you are being reasonable to insult them. I think that in doing that you are lumping all JW's together in the same way you would by treating one group of people the same because of the colour of their skin for example.

alicet · 06/09/2007 16:18

UQD - you here have a captive JW in lisa who is more than happy to answer the questions you have and has volunteered to go away and find out if you ask her something she doesn't know. And you have not taken her up on her offer. Why not?

Aimsmum · 06/09/2007 16:18

Message withdrawn

LazyLinePainterJane · 06/09/2007 16:19

It should really be plain from the gist of my post that "to" was a mistype. I meant to say rude about them.

UnquietDad · 06/09/2007 16:20

alicet - well, I didn't exactly come on here expecting to have a list of questions ready! I am trying to work at the samwe time!! Blimey.

aimsmum - you may be right, but the ones I met simply quote the bible at me and ask me to read the Watchtower and their pamphlets. There are only so many times you can say, "thanks, but I've been there and done that and it still isn't working for me."

LazyLinePainterJane · 06/09/2007 16:21

I think what UQD means is that he would like a debate with them telling him what they actually think. Often it seems as if any questions are answered as if reading from the equivalent of a double glazing sellers script.

He wants debate, not the party line.

Caroline1852 · 06/09/2007 16:22

I do not object to JWs because of their beliefs, I object to them knocking on my door at 9am on a weekend morning. You know those fish stickers that Christians have on the back of their cars (aquarium on board)? Could we not come up with some small sticker for our front door whereby we completely opt out? Perhaps we could all suggest a small graphic that would depict: "Knock and you will not be experiencing paradise on earth for much longer".

lisad123 · 06/09/2007 16:23

UQD: I guess that you could ask as many questions as you like and they could answer everyone of them, but a certain amount of it is faith, you either believe or you dont. You could spend your life finding questions and looking for answers and never find them.

alicet · 06/09/2007 16:24

Can understand that UQD. But how unreasonable that you are expected to work rather than chat on MN!

Lazylinepainterjane - that mistype throws a whole different slant on your post. But given the way this debate has gone its not surprising I took it as read!

Anyway off now to get my ds up...

UnquietDad · 06/09/2007 16:28

Yes, it's never debate in the way, say, a Marxist and a capitalist would debate. It's just "it says this so it must be true".

The questions I'd ask JWs are those I ask all religious people.
What do you believe?
Why do you believe it?
How do you know it's true?
If you have a God, what exactly is it/she /he?
And where is it/she/he?
And how do you know it is there?
How do you know it's any more true than any other religions' beliefs?
Why is your religion any different from (say) the gods of ancient Greece, or ancient Egypt, which pretty much nobody believes in now?
Don't you think religions all die out eventually but the human race carries on regardless?
Do you not think the human race managed to survive before religion was invented?
What happens to people who do not believe your religion?
Is there any evidence for your beliefs, other than the writings of your religion and your own personal faith?

Aimsmum · 06/09/2007 16:29

Message withdrawn

UnquietDad · 06/09/2007 16:57

Of course they are basic. They are questions I have never had a satisfactory answer to from any religion.

lisad123 · 06/09/2007 17:03

I dont think you would ever get the answers you desire as some of those questions are unanswerable to a certain level, because they require faith rather than hard facts.

Caroline1852 · 06/09/2007 17:04

UQD - you have been reading too much Dawkins. (Dawkins should stick to science). I do not think that any religion need necessarily make sense, that entirely misses the point of faith doesn't it? I just prefer any religion I choose (or not) to be chosen in a self service manner and not delivered to my door, unordered.

krang · 06/09/2007 17:07

Hi aimsmum. I am quite happy to mock any religion. I also accept that religious people have a perfect right to mock me. This is the hallmark of a free society which I cherish. I do not accept that either religion or atheism should be above mockery, and I'd love you to find an example of your contention that a thread mocking Muslims would be instantly deleted.

Oh yes, and I'd love to ask some questions.

Can any JWs point me in the direction of the particular scripture that forbids this?

Why do you think that this scripture, written thousands of years before the technology existed, which has been through numerous translations into languages which didn't exist when it was written, has any relevance to blood transfusions?

Is it simply because your founder, who was wrong about a lot of things (including the date of the Second Coming) interpreted it as such?

Why do you believe him rather than the nutter down Oxford Street?

Do you really believe that God prefers babies to die than to make use of a simple technology?

If you do, why on earth do you expect that I'll be pleased to hear this message?

Caroline1852 · 06/09/2007 17:12

Do you think if I placed my blood donor card at the door on weekend mornings, I might be afforded a lie-in?

krang · 06/09/2007 17:16

When I read someone asking us to ask questions, then telling us that these questions are unanswerable, I wonder whether there can ever be such a thing as 'too much Dawkins'.

Anyhow, my questions are pretty specific. Look forward to reading the answers.

Caroline1852 · 06/09/2007 17:19

Krang, I think it is a bit childish to just mock people of a religion just because you can. I would prefer that everyone went about their religious business without being mocked or harangued for the scientific basis for their beliefs. However, I am not sure it is polite for these people to come knocking on your door trying to thrust their beliefs down your throat either.