Misconceptions over home education and socialisation

[PeachAndorange]

Why is this the case? I’m sick of hearing it as it isn’t true ?
There are HE groups and also other activities at weekends and evenings that any children can go to
Play dates with friends
Family gatherings

All I’m hearing is that my child will be isolated and this was a negative choice .... it’s not and seems it’s just the general consensus that parents do this to isolate and it couldn’t be further from the truth

I agree with you Marfisa. The Coalition for Responsible Home Education database showed that from 2000-2018 , 320 of its children were abused & had contact with social services: & 116 died. It concluded homeschooled children were at significantly greater risk , as there are no mandatory welfare checks, only academic progress checks.

I work in a home ed group where we have around 20 kids aged 5-10 2 days a week with no parents around and they spend most of the time playing

This is a genuine question, as my children are all preschoolers. How is dropping a ten year old off at playgroup two days a week “Home Ed”? Surely you aren’t getting the one-to-one individualised tuition that is meant to be the point of Home Ed - how is it different to a small school class? My own primary school only had thirty kids in the year (in two classes of 15, small village school). Not really seeing how this is different.

Of course if the difference is “SEN needs that mainstream can’t/won’t cope with”, very different situation.

@okiedokieme

If you think all young people who attend schools are getting an education (one which is appropriate for their age, aptitude and stage of development) you are seriously mistaken. How about we sort out schools (which fail a lot more children than HE does) and then we'll take on the pesky home edders...

Agree with the PP who said that what school gives you that home ed can’t is the opportunity to engage with and get used to/find ways of tolerating petty bureaucratic bullshit. It would be tough to get to 18 and have never really existed in a system of governance day in, day out. That would make working in a job very hard.

It concluded homeschooled children were at significantly greater risk , as there are no mandatory welfare checks, only academic progress checks.
There are no mandatory checks on babies/toddlers or pre schoolers either.
No parent should be treated as a potential abuser unless they have been proved to be a risk to their child.

This is a genuine question, as my children are all preschoolers. How is dropping a ten year old off at playgroup two days a week “Home Ed”?

With home ed, you can do the "education" bit when you want. And 1:1 takes a lot less time than in a class of 30 kids. So you have plenty of time for whatever groups or activities you want to fit in. Unstructured play with other kids is important, just like learning is important, and groups like this are great.

I home educated DD in years 4&5. It was brilliant. We covered the full curriculum up to end of year 6 in 0-3 hours a day. She mixed with other children in various groups 6 days a week for up to 3.5 hour at a time. Some of these I stayed at but most I dropped and left her at. A PP is right that in the home ed groups, boys, girls, older and younger children all mixed with each other. Much more sociable than the primary school isolation DD had of being in a class of 23 boys and 6 girls who she didn't get on with due to lack of shared interests.

I really appreciated that period of home ed. She was happy to try secondary school though, and I really didn't want to be responsible for her GCSEs, which is a big part of why she went back to school.

No parent should be treated as a potential abuser unless they have been proved to be a risk to their child.

but how do you prove they are a risk to the child if you don't check?

The kids should be the priority, and at least a few mandatory medical checks should be imposed. I don't care if people scream about a nanny state, the idea that a baby completely disappear from anyone's radar is frightening.

Normal parents would be delighted to get support and checks to ensure everything is well, it's a disgrace there's no such thing here anyway.

I think the most important thing about school is dealing with NOT getting along with people. Home Ed doesn't really give you many opportunities to do that.

Oh believe me, it's not all a picture of happiness in home Ed. There are still people you're not going to get on with, and other kids in clubs etc.

I'd rather not have left my son in school to deal with the whole class bullying.

He gets left at lots of clubs without me, I don't hover around him all day every day, I couldn't imagine anything more boring! And he has some fantastic close friendships.

I know a home educator ( for the reason she decided her children were too smart for school).
Her DD did very well with it and is now in college. Her DS less so. He was ‘socialised’ with scouts/sports club whilst his mum stood watching. What has stood out is his inability to deal with others that challenge him. He went to very nice groups with nice kids. If he went to playgrounds or other places where kids might say things to him, he had no coping strategies.
He’s 16 now. He does his school work online and his hobby is..being online.

The kids should be the priority, and at least a few mandatory medical checks should be imposed. I don't care if people scream about a nanny state, the idea that a baby completely disappear from anyone's radar is frightening

I agree. I know some home ed kids who haven't had any contact with professional organisations at all AFAIK. They were "freebirthed", are unvaccinated, the parents opt out of seeing health visitors. I assume they are at least registered with a GP and were registered at birth but that's all. I have no reason to believe the parents are abusive (though there's a grey area on the medical stuff and neglect IMO), they're just very alternative. But it is possible for babies/children to be VERY under the radar.

CSIblond are you saying that 116 children in this country died between 2000 and 2018 because they were home educated ( and isolated)?

We have many de-registered children coming to our home ed groups because they were bullied at school, didn't socialise because they didn't have any friends, were too different to the other children, didn't get the help they needed from teachers, couldn't cope with the busy environment, didn't get enough stimulation etc.
Was it wrong of their parents to take them out of school to home educucate them?
Why do you think that the hours children spent at school is exactly the right number of hours for them to learn to socialise "well enough"? Do you think children in other countries who spend less time at school are disadvantaged?
How about children who live where there aren't any schools? And how did humanity manage to survive and socilalise for millions of years without schools?
Do you think someone should come round regularly to check on pre-schoolers and school age children during the holidays? Of course it's easier for parents to hide abuse if children are home educated. But there are many many children who are abused by parents even though they go to school, and some children are abused at school. Making all children go to school doesn't solve the problem of child abuse.

MightyMile babies can't be home educated anyway.....

Well no, but they grow into children who are basically unknown to all authorities.

I'm not anti home ed, we did it for a while and there are a lot of misconceptions on both sides. I get why HE families don't want too much interference. But I also think it's concerning that children can be hidden.

Well, it's very unusual that children are hidden. If anyone knows of any cases in this country please let us know. The website someone talked about earlier in the thread is American, so not relevant to home ed in this country.

Gingerginger, you're putting words in my mouth. (or misreading my posts ). I didn't say all children should be made to attend school. I didn't say school helps children learn social skills 'well enough'. I said as a teacher I know all skills need regular repetition & practice & school reinforces skills daily, which a few clubs & family gatherings doesnt. . The stats I quoted were from one Home Ed database in the US where they concluded its too easy for Home Ed children to fall off the radar as there are no welfare checks. As I said, the number who had contact re abuse with social services was 320: with 116 deaths. I didn't say schools here or in US had mandatory welfare checks or suggest they should have. As their research concluded, it's easier to spot abuse if you see a child daily & easier to hide it if you isolate them. I've had to report obvious abuse of children I've taught . I've no issue with Home Ed as a last resort after bullying either. I'm happy to point you in the direction of research stats & articles identifying Home Ed as a common factor in abuse.

Normal parents would be delighted to get support and checks to ensure everything is well, it's a disgrace there's no such thing here anyway.
No they really wouldn’t.

Gingerginger, I forgot to add 'Child C' was a Home Ed child abuse case in the UK not long ago. He & four other fostered children were removed & the case went to Court. The single mother is still in prison & unrepentant. She damaged his genitalia so badly he can't have children. They were starved, locked in empty unheated rooms, beaten all over with chair legs & made to eat feces & vomit. There are also numerous books by survivors re similar UK cases involving abuse & Home Ed, that didn't make the papers like Child C, (who also wrote a book re his abuse) .

Also Gingerginger, in 2015 UK research on child abuse by a Home Schooling organisation involving 134 English Local Authorities found that homeschooled children were twice as likely to be referred to social services as children who attended school.

Child C was fostered, so definitely not hidden or unknown to the authorities! Child C was placed with a social services foster carer, who was allowed to home educate him. This is not an example of parents home educating in order to hide their children, quite the opposite.

Yes CSI but "likely to be referred* doesn't mean that there was a actually a real issue.

. As this thread shows there are a lot of misconceptions about home educating families, lots of people suspect abuse is taking place in home educating families, so a disproportionate number of home educated children are reported to SS.

Gingerginger Child C was homeschooled & hidden as were the others, & never allowed out. I read the Court docs & book, where she actively moved them to a farm in another area more isolated so she could isolate them more: why are you pretending & dismissing it. Do Foster parents 'not count'. Seriously? Recent homeschooled UK deaths:
Jordan Burling, 2019 + a dead baby found in wardrobe
Dylan Seabridge, 2016
Welsh (Camarthen area) unnamed girl, 2018
'Child AB' (Northamptonshire) , 2020.
And are you dismissing all the UK authors of books on their horrific abuse who mention being withdrawn from school. I counted at least 6 currently on Amazon. I've got another four in my bookcases that were pre 2010.

Gingerginger You can't change the stats researched by the UK Home School organisation which you handily ignored. I'm not posting any more as you're not taking in & dismissing solid stats, facts & research by relevant bodies, plus concrete facts from court cases & books by survivors. I'm sure Child C would not agree that being moved to an isolated, rural farmhouse by an abusive foster parent who home schooled doesn't count because she was a Foster parent & he 'wasn't being hidden' . Would you like to dismiss his horrific experience any more, just to justify you're insistence that homeschooling is absolutely perfect. Low, very low.

If anyone knows of any cases in this country please let us know

Dylan Seabridge. Home schooled, died of scurvy at age eight in Wales in 2011.

And honestly I find it a bit shocking that anyone who considers themselves a homeschooling advocate isn't familiar with the case. It was all over the news when the report came out in 2016.

I find it a bit disingenuous to suggest that the kind of socialising HE kids do is the same as in school. Learning to rub along with people who aren't like you, whose parents haven't made the same unusual lifestyle choices, is a significant life skill.

Child C is not an example of a "hidden" child. He was looked after by the local ahthority. They were responsible for his welfare. They certainky knew about his existence. Social workers were involved. Foster carers aren't just left to it. Of course I am not denying that he was abused, but he is not an example of a hidden home educated child.
I am not denying anything. I asked for examples. I don't know some of your examples. I know that Dylan Seabridge wasn't hidden either. Concerns had been raised but not been acted upon.

The point is that children in and out of school are abused. I don't know of any cases in this country where a home educated child has been hidden and abused and completely unknown to anyone and no concerns raised by anyone.