WIBU to request this of the school? SEN child

[Crazyhouse123]

DS2(15) was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD last summer. He has been struggling in secondary for the last couple of years, socially he has a lovely group of friends but struggles academically and with focus, with dyslexia too. His attendance is now hovering around the 50% mark for this academic year.

I had a meeting with the SLT the other day in the hope of getting a plan to get him back in. The school has an amazing place for students with SEN where they can go and work on things in a non-classroom environment. School have put into place DS being able to use this as a safe place when he feels an emotional crisis coming on.

The trouble is at the moment every lesson means DS feels like this. Before half term he was turned away from this unit as he expressed anxiety as "feeling achey" ...he has autism and struggles to describe the way he feels... and he now feels like he is just a hopeless PITA and I have not been able to get him back in because he believes that he won't be able to go to this unit if he needs to.

In the meeting the other day I suggested that maybe we need to work from the bottom up rather than the top down...in other words, instead of using the unit as an escape, using it as a base for all lessons with the aim of gently encouraging him to go to some lessons when he feels confident enough. He will not be getting full learning in the unit but he will be in school and he will be learning something and most importantly, he will be learning how to cope with being in school. The EP can work with him and hopefully over the next few weeks we can gradually build up his coping mechanism and get him back into most, if not all, lessons.

School however have said they cant support this as he needs to be in lessons. They have said we can do it for a week and get him back into school but then he needs to be in lessons. They explained that the unit is a last resort.

My arguing is that this IS a last resort. This is what the unit is there for. They do have other students doing this so it's not a unique request. My child has diagnosed SEN. If DS feels that this is time restricted then it will just cause more stress and anxiety. The school has not applied for an ECP and SENDIASS have advised that I can so I am looking into that.

I have another meeting with them today with DS. WIBU to push for this unit as full time? I get that DS will not get full learning in the unit but at the moment he is getting no learning. Once I can get DS used to being at school and coping with it I fully intend to encourage him to get back into lessons. I will work with him and the school to help him catch up. I will do what I can to help. But I can't help if he isn't in school.

Thank you for any advise and apologies that this is so long!

if he starts using it as a classroom then it defeats the object of having it.......what about other kids who are trying to get away from the classroom environment?

You need to apply for an EHCP yourself don't wait for the school. You wouldn't be unreasonable to ask that your son attends the usnit full time with a view to reintegrating back into the classroom. I would just point out that the alternative is even more absences which is detrimental to your child and the school's attendance figures. Quote the need for reasonable adjustments to be made to the school and what you are proposing is completely reasonable.

OP might I suggest requesting this gets moved to either the SEN board or Secondary Education? With it being in AIBU there's an increased chance of getting some really bad advice, possibly with people being unpleasant about your child.

On the situation, I'll be honest it is almost impossible to staff the sort of set up you would like unless your child has an allocated 1-1 TA for the whole school timetable. Just because one child does something doesn't mean it's an option available for others. These situations are often very sensitive and complex.

On EHCP, in y10/11 it's really difficult to get them. Schools can still apply for high needs funding if a student needs additional support and it's needs driven, not diagnosis driven, but the threshold will differ area to area.

Based on my experience having students down in the SEND support base for extensive periods of time seems to decrease the likelihood of them attending lessons because rather than it being a comfortable backup for support if they need it, being based there permanently with the option to go to some lessons means it becomes their safe bubble and the rest of school becomes an increasingly stressful place.

If they're 15 then it's GCSE so I'd imagine there's probably more benefit in sitting down with the SENCo and head of year to make some plans about what would be an ideal and realistic set of outcomes between now and final exams. From there discuss what the school day would look like.

For example:
Are you wanting DC to still sit the full 9/10 GCSEs? If so, is that realistic given their attendance so far and the demands of the specification? This will depend on if they're y10 or 11.

What is your DC hoping to do post-16? That might affect what the best approach now might be.

Could he reduce his options, which would probably create a free period every day where he can complete independent supervised study in the support base?

Could the school explore partnerships with local charities and alternative provision providers for some addition support? This may mean some afternoons off site working with specialists and sometimes even accessing some vocational/life skills courses.

They are some of the things I would be thinking about before the meeting. Hope the meeting goes well.

hiredandsqueak thank you so much for your reply. I only found out the other day that I can apply for the EHCP so I am planning on doing that.

I feel like there is so much I dont know about SEN in schools so really appreciate your comments.

LolaSmiles thank you for your reply. I will request that this is moved. The school is concerned that it will be a safe bubble and reduce the incentive for my DS to go to any lessons, he is year 10 so we have a year and a half to get together a GCSE plan. I agree with the school in this but my other thought is exactly as you say....at the moment he is getting no schooling at all. I can't get him in.
At the moment DS has no post 16 plans. He just gets upset at the thought of it, the SENCo did work with him on this in the hope that getting a final goal in place would help but it didnt unfortunately. So I am focusing on each day at the moment!

How about starting by taking the week you've been offered without telling your son the time limit and see how he gets on and if he seems genuinely happier and more relaxed etc. If this is the case you have proof of how beneficial this is for your son. Unfortunately I think the school could and should be doing more to support your son. Find their SEN policies and make sure everything's being followed correctly. I completely understand the school saying he needs to be in lessons, but if he's this anxious I doubt he 'll take much in anyway. Maybe them reassuring him after this week that if he feels overwhelmed in class he CAN go to the unit would reduce his stress as this seems to be a big safety net for him. If the schools not happy to help you or you feel they could do more, perhaps you should see if your son would be happier at a new school, or perhaps home schooling or tutoring if that would be viable for your family. Your son is also old enough to stay in touch with friends independently so hopefully wouldn't affect his social life too much. Big hugs

It really isn't difficult to get an EHCP that is a myth put out by LAs and perpetuated by schools. The law is clear The only criteria you have to meet for an EHCP assessment is (i) that you suspect the child has special needs, and (ii) that you suspect that the child needs extra support in school.OP's son has autism and dyslexia and is having difficulty attending school and so he meets the criteria for a needs assessment.
EHCP's cover education up to 25 years of age so potentially ten years of support so a definite reason to apply. Contact IPSEA and SOSSEN for support with the process would be my advice, don't epect the school or the LA to know or meet their statutory duty or have your child's best interests at heart either. Trust your instincts and be prepared for a fight.
FWIW the first EHCP issued to my dd had £1250 funding on it through appeal the LA now pat £68k pa school fees, £7k transport costs and £200pw for a tutor so don't accept that they offer what is needed they offer what they think they will get away with.

He needs a visual cue he can show to the unit to avoid having to verbalise his emotions and staff misunderstanding!

Many LAs turn down the request for assessment even with the bar for assessment being so low and the child having a diagnosis. There is an appeal process - mediation and/or court - so don't be surprised if you have to use it. It did take us 9 months from first request to draft EHCP being issued.

I have been exactly where you are but with a child in KS3. IME schools dont have the understanding (they say they do but they really, really don't) and are too rigid and inflexible to support a child with such high anxiety. And I don't think its just about staffing as my child had a full time LSA but it made no difference. For children with school induced anxiety the school needs to be REALLY flexible, endlessly kind and patient, and really think outside the box WRT support, and I just dont think mainstream secondaries have those qualities at the moment (there may be a few exceptions but good luck finding them!). I'm sorry this is probably not what you want to hear.

Crazyhouse123
I'm inclined to agree with the school on the long term impact. Short term to get DC in school it isn't a bad idea if they have the capacity for the short term, but to work well with a realistic chance of getting back into lessons there needs to be comprehensive support and a plan. It can't be "let a student stay down in the base, talk to a member of staff a few times and then hope they start wanting to go back" (failing on school's part of that happens). I've seen similar situations where students sit in the base, supervised by a TA for hours a day, gaining as little as they would at home and the longer it goes on, the more stuck the child gets. It's heartbreaking.

Definitely consider what other options school could put in place where DC is accessing education with qualified teachers or qualified allied professionals. For example, some of my former students were referred to the EOTAS service which is education other than at school. They attended a smaller nurture unit for anxious students to get caught up and then phased back into school. There are options which will vary area to area, but they may be more beneficial.

It really isn't difficult to get an EHCP that is a myth put out by LAs and perpetuated by schools
Please come and say this to every SEND department I've worked with who spend months and years fighting to get EHCPs, high needs funding, assessments for diagnosis etc in place for students. Please tell all the parents who find the system a nightmare that's it's oh so easy.

Schools don't benefit from having students who lack the support required to thrive.
Staff certainly don't benefit from watching their students needlessly struggle.
Schools don't benefit from not having the funds to support all students as well as they would like.
Based on what you're saying it's so easy and therefore schools up and down the country and willingly choosing not to access a pot of free money that will make it easier to do their jobs.

It isn't THAT difficult to get an EHCP. I've done it twice. You have to be extremely organised and persistent, but it's certainly not as hard as people make out. I was totally put off by horror stories but I was wrong to be.

Hi thank you all so so much for your replies. There is some amazing useful information and I am so grateful!

I agree that this is not an ideal long term plan, and it is risky for all the reasons above and the school is concerned about. I suppose in my mind the priority is getting him back in and this seems to be the only option right now, certainly there are no others that have worked.

Meeting in in an hour so I will report back after that having discussed some of the points above. Thank you again so much for the support. I have been on my own with this for so long!

itswrongtowishonspacehardware
Not to hijack, but how old out of interest?

We find by the time students get to y9/10 there's a lot of pushback.

I agree with Lola about exploring EOTAS. My child currently receiving home tuition organised by the LA. There were other options in my area, but they were all full. Unfortunately it seems this is a growing problem.

LolaSmiles point the parents in the direction of the many sources of support to help them secure an EHCP. IPSEA, SOSSEN, Educational Equality, NAS education advice to name but a few. Alert them to the fact that if they qualify for Legal Aid they can have a educational law solicitor's support and independent assessments made by SALT, OT and Ed Psych assessments made to provide the evidence. Encourage them to become familiar with the legislation around SEND and the code of practice and help them recognise when LA's are acting unlawfully because they do routinely. Warn the parents that they may well need to appeal to SENDIST but parents win 95% of appeals when pursuing an EHCP (99% in our LA) and very often LA's back down when faced with the prospect of SENDIST anyway.

hiredandsqueak
Our SENCo does a lot of the signposting at our school. Beyond my in school requirements, my interest is more supportig parent of children in my form when they're working with the SENDCo to make their cases.

Just read that list though, it's far from easy, which is what you suggested. The system is broken in many places so telling people it's not hard to get an ECHP and schools are just making it up does a lot of staff a huge disservice when they're often on the same side as the parents (and yes I do accept there is some terrible provision out there).

I think though that parents are discouraged if they are led to believe it is really impossible. I think if I was a SENCo I would put together a booklet of resources like I listed above and give to parents because really the power lies with the parents. If parents only contacted one of the many free sources of support they would discover that it's not impossible and there is support out there for every step of the way. Schools can't pursue to SENDIST where 95% of appeals are found in the parents' favour so to me it makes sense to empower the parents.

My dd has her own "office" at school where she did her lessons, she did go to some classes but working on her own kept her in school, otherwise I had to keep fetching her

I agree with everything that Lola says. I think that half way through Year 10 doesn’t mean that there is a year and a half before GCSE. The summer term will be revision and exams and a large part of the course will be completed by now. 50% attendance means that he will have missed half the content.

Applying for an EHCP is, of course, possible, but bearing in mind the timescale, might not be of benefit, were it to be granted.

Looking at alternatives such as EOTAS, I think is a positive step. Is there a college course that could be explored? I’d have a discussion with the school perhaps, about what GCSEs might be realistic, given the time already elapsed.

hiredandsqueak, your posts do read as though you believe it’s a fight between schools and parents. Whilst accepting there is some bad practice, most schools want a collaboration and the very best for their students.

I would imagine that the school have been working with you OP and are quite supportive. Keep a positive relationship with them if you can, so you can work together creatively to do the best for your son.

Whilst accepting there is some bad practice, most schools want a collaboration and the very best for their students

I disagree with this. I think when it comes to children with school induced anxiety and co occurring disabilities, bad practice is the norm rather than the exception.

Schools ultimately want what's best for their data, they don't want pupils with poor attendance and potentially poor exam results spoiling that.

They don't want to (or can't) spend the time and money these children need.

They don't actually care about what happens to the pupil, and are often deliberately unhelpful or actually intimidating to their parents because they just want the problem to go away.

I don't people realise how appallingly some SLT bahave when their data or budgets are threatened. I don't EVEN think class teachers working in the school realise it happens.

Fully agree that parents and schools working collaboratively is definitely best practice and when that works that is great. Sometimes though parents need to know that in these cash strapped times what is needed and what is offered might be quite different and then parents need to turn to the law to get the support for their child outside of the available resources within the school.

Schools ultimately want what's best for their data, they don't want pupils with poor attendance and potentially poor exam results spoiling that.
So it is in the school's interests to get something sorted. With every child counting under progress 8, just a dozen students who did well at KS2 underperforming at GCSE can cause a whole pile of problems.

They don't want to (or can't) spend the time and money these children need.
Want and can't are very different.
Again, why would a school want to actively create a situation where a child does badly when (if we hypothetically assume SLT don't care about any child in the school for the sake of argument) it causes a huge data headache?
They don't actually care about what happens to the pupil, and are often deliberately unhelpful or actually intimidating to their parents because they just want the problem to go away.
Nice sweeping statement about the bulk of an education system.
Yes, nobody actually cares about the students. Nobody is doing what they can? No members of staff meet with parents to navigate the system? No teachers doing additional intervention to catch students up? No form tutors or mentors are spending their breaks, lunches and either side of the school day supporting students? There's nobody spending hours and hours filling in millions of forms for the students in their care? Nobody attending multi agency meetings? Nobody bidding for pots of money? No schools are employing their own in house assessors, therapists because they're trying to do what they can to help? No school adjusts their timetable to offer additional literacy and numeracy support? There's no intervention in any of the SEND bases in schools up and down the country designed to support students with dyslexia? No teams of pastoral staff supporting students with SEMH?

There's no schools who are piling pressure on staff to work beyond directed time because there's not enough funds to fund the extras for these students? There's no additional meetings where specific members of staff have to do additional training to better support the students?

There's no staff making phonecalls to work with parents? No discussion between subject teachers and home about getting caught up? No days where a member of staff is covered all day so they can support a small group who need extra support to work on their coursework folders?

Nope. You're right. Schools don't give a damn and don't do anything.

Off rolling happens, but it's not the norm and after a certain point the children on the school census count for results even if they've left.

I don't people realise how appallingly some SLT bahave when their data or budgets are threatened. I don't EVEN think class teachers working in the school realise it happens
Are you trying to suggest that teachers in schools with poor SLTs don't know they exist?

Go on any education board and the main reason keeping people in teaching is the students. Nobody doubts there's bad practice, but spare us from sweeping claims that are a huge insult to thousands of people who work day in day out trying to do what's best for the children they teach. Between the government talking the profession down and parents claiming almost none of us gives a shit, is it any wonder there's a recruitment and retention crisis?

Sorry for the long rant on your thread OP. I'm all for sharing individual experiences and, like many teachers, I'm under no illusion of what can and does go on in places, but sweeping statements essentially saying schools are shit, staff don't care, nobody bothers to do anything really annoy me.

But sweeping statements saying schools generally do their best for these pupils annoys me equally.

My experience, and the experience of many many other people I have spoken to says they don't.

You always take these sort of threads very personally lola I'm not criticising you or teachers in general.

Just stating the fact, and it is a fact, that many parents of children with AN find schools to be very adversarial at the moment. And some have had horrendous experiences which need to be listened to.