Is this osteopath friendly or Pervy?

[Nochangeplease]

It’s an osteopath that I was referred to by the gp. He is an older man if it matters, maybe 50-60. Obviously it’s necessary to take my top off which is not something I’m completely comfortable with (even with doctors ect) so I’m not sure if being in this uneasy and vulnerable state is skewing my judgement.
The first time I saw him I remember feeling a bit uncomfortable with the conversation a few time’s. Can’t remember details now but over the sessions there have been comments like “I bet you say that to all the boys” as a joke after something I’d said. He often talks of his daughter (17) and wife, which then makes me think he’s just a normal guy.
There was a strange conversation about bras last
Time. We was talking about causes of back pain and he went on to the subject
Of bras, told me that lots of female patients complain about bras and went on to describe a strangely done up bra that a previous patient had on. Said it was cross crossed And he had never seen anything like and she had said she got it in Ann summers and he was surprised as he thought they only sold “saucy knickers and such”. Mentioned his wife was big chested and his daughter looked to be going the same way (in reference to back pain)
He then carries on with normal chit chat but my gut feeling is this is not really appropriate conversation?
But then again, he’s in a position of trust, doing his job and it’s probably entirely innocent and I just feel a bit weird. Aibu?

As you're uncomfortable with him, see a different osteopath.

His age is utterly irrelevant.

Talking about bras (and indeed weight of breasts) with reference to back pain is relevant.

Remarks about Anne Summers really aren't.

I see an osteopath regularly, a lovely young man in his 30s (youth is relative!). He's never asked me to take my top off, I get the impression he'd far rather I kept it on himself. I just wear a light shirt and shorts or leggings and he works through/around it. He might lift the top at the back but always asks if its OK first and he always asks/apologises if he needs to touch anything around my hips or groin.

Your man does seem odd to me, but maybe just older? I think mine has probably had training in protecting himself from allegations.

I think that if you are not big breasted, your pain is not associated with big breasts, he has not need to talk about big breasts and ladies bras... unless he LIKES talking about these topics, which I would consider inappropriate and unprofessional.

I wear a robe that opens at the back, which my middle aged male osteopath provides.
All the things he said would make me uncomfortable too. I'd find another one.

I think he's being utterly weird. Really not appropriate. This kind of behaviour is part of the reason why chaperones are offered. If you do end up going back to him, make sure someone else is in the room with you. It's not up to you to make him feel comfortable when your the one with your top off.

Also, if I was chaperoning and heard what he'd said I would be blowing the whistle on him. This is especially anger inducing when you've made it clear in your post that your back pain has nothing to do with breasts or bras.

You feel uncomfortable and that is literally all that matters- don't minimise, don't reason with yourself, don't devalue you're sense of autonomy by continuing to do something with someone you don't like.

Get a new osteopath. If your daughter was the one writing the OP, what would you do? Do that.

I wouldn't automatically assume it was pervy. I see a lot of naked and semi-naked bodies in my job and as a result talk quite freely about all parts of the body.
The association between big breasts and back pain is a well-documented clinical issue and I would think most osteopaths, chiropractors etc would notice if their daughters were at risk of or currently suffered from this, and would advise them appropriately. Equally, if a previous client has had a bra that improved/exacerbated a clinical problem, I don't see the harm in recommending/advising against it to other clients.
It could be that he's perving over his daughter and clients but if he's like most of the medics and clinicians I know, the opposite is true and he sees breasts as such a clinical, non-sexual part of the body that he has no qualms about discussing them (or bras) as openly as he would discuss elbows or the pros/cons of different types of shoes wrt back pain.
Not to say that YABU to feel uncomfortable with this. Personally I don't think it's a reportable offence, but if you don't like it, find a different practitioner.

It doesn't matter what we think, if you are uncomfortable then find another osteopath. He can't do his job properly if you are tense anyway as you have to relax so he can adjust you.

'The association between big breasts and back pain is a well-documented"

The op has made it clear this is not the problem here.

Sharing details of a previous client's underwear choice is a breach of confidentiality, surely?

Not unless the client is identifiable.

Yeah that would get my hackles up straight away. Anne summers reference alone would see me not going back

Trust your instincts. This isn't OK. Ask for a chaperone if you feel you can go back. Don't worry about his feelings - he should know he's made you feel uncomfortable. Men who get to work with women when we're undressed must be sensitive and aware - protecting them from the consequences of making inappropriate comments means they never change. Asking also means that his workplace become aware that women don't want to be alone with him.
I'm not trying to shift any blame on you OP - he's the one with the problem behaviour. Just to point out that unless we all call out inappropriate pervy men, they carry on unchallenged. If you don't go back at least flag up the specific comments he made to your GP? A letter or email (paper trail) will be hard to ignore - there's a greater awareness of abusers in the medical system preying on women and likely to get you an alternative practitioner.

Are you in the north west?

I had a similar experience years ago - and the guy was a family friend. I never went back.

Years later heard a tale through a third party about a woman who imagined she was in a relationship with her osteopath, but she was actually just being used. It was no surprise to me when the gentleman’s name was mentioned!

I reckon I know who you are talking about!

This reminds of the time I saw a private psychologist (older 60's) in when I was 19/20 (easily looked 5 years younger) and he repeatedly mentioned writing down my sexual thoughts. He'd use any way to get it into the conversation. I never ever initiated it. I was single and had no issue with it. There was absolutely no need to keep bringing up stuff like that. I had trouble with social anxiety, it was completely irrelevant. I stopped going after about a month.

It's inappropriate.

YABU

I talk about mine hurting my back with my dad and he would bring it up in a conversation with my mum.

And does your dad then find arbitrary 'reasons' to talk about the size of your chest to women who have taken their tops off in his clinic, @woodn? Does he also shoehorn in mentions of bra fastenings & Ann Summers pants?

If he does, he's a sleazy fucker.
HTH

I’ve seen a chiropractor and an osteopath. At the chiropractor they gave gowns to wear, at the osteopath it was keep you own clothes on. No top off at either.

I could ask for a chaperone, that would make me feel better but I know I won’t, becuase then he’ll know I’ve felt uncomfortable, which will make me more uncomfortable.

You're not helping yourself here OP.
You'd actually rather suffer the pain than take action? FFS!

Either get the chaperone - which will send a clear message to the Osteo, who is the ONLY person who needs to be feeling uncomfortable here ...
Or get back to your GP, tell her exactly what you have told us, & ask for a different Osteo.

Take a chaperone.
You'll soon see if this is harmless banter.
If he reigns it in with a chaperone present then you'll have your answer.

Maybe ask if you could be referred to a female and say something like you don't feel comfortable in your underwear being treated by a man.

Or maybe - & I know how radical a thought process this is on MN - OP could JUST TELL THE TRUTH to her GP, that the Osteo made unprofessional & sleazy remarks, & she does not wish to be alone in a room with him & wishes for a new recommendation?

Maybe if you do change, drop him a friendly email explaining how you found his ‘banter’ a little bit off.

Yeah, because sleazy fuckers who enjoy making women feel vulnerable & uncomfortable, & who have worked out a routine that makes the woman feel just enough on edge to titillate him, but leaves her unsure of exactly how inappropriate he is being, will respond well to a friendly email ...
What would be the point of emailing him?
What do you think the outcome would be?

Any emailing should be to her GP, copying the Osteo & his practice manager if he has one, outlining his inappropriate & unprofessional conversational style.

It could be a very clumsy attempt at humour, but if it offends and you aren’t comfortable, find someone else.

The association between big breasts and back pain is a well-documented clinical issue and I would think most osteopaths, chiropractors etc would notice if their daughters were at risk of or currently suffered from this, and would advise them appropriately.

OP does not have big breasts @JonnyPocketRocket.
OP does not require treatment advice concerning the Osteo's daughter.
Osteo has deliberately shoehorned in an inecessary conversation about large breasts, bras, & for crying out loud Ann Summers knickers.

he sees breasts as such a clinical, non-sexual part of the body that he has no qualms about discussing them (or bras)
His qualms are irrelevant. What is relevant is his patient, & if he is having difficulty understanding this, he needs to get some training in asap regarding appropriate behaviour & bedside manner.