To think that the world would not be a better place without Heidi *Content Warning - abortion/disability edited by MNHQ*

[bridgetreilly]

Heidi is 24 and has Downs syndrome. She is beautiful and brilliant and very articulate in explaining why the UK abortion law is discriminatory in allowing abortion up to full term where the child has Downs syndrome (and other non-fatal disabilities including cleft palate or club foot), when the standard limit is 24 weeks.

She's not the only one to think that. The United Nations’ Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities’ concluding observations on the initial report of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland made a key recommendation that the UK change its abortion law on disability so that it does not single out babies with disabilities. However, the Government has decided to ignore this recommendation.

Heidi, along with the mother of a young boy with Downs syndrome, is planning to sue the government for discrimination. She is amazing and I hope she wins.

Makes my blood run slightly cold at getting rid of the ‘imperfect’ people

And what about parents who already have a severely disabled child they're caring for?

Should that child suffer because the mother has been made to give birth to an equally demanding sibling against her better judgement and against her will?

Makes my blood run slightly cold at getting rid of the ‘imperfect’ people

It makes my blood run slightly cold that we do not allow humans the same dignity and love we provide our pets by putting them to sleep when their quality of life is no longer there.
I see a termination of a dc who would suffer terribly if born the final act of parental love that the mothers in that awful situation get to make. I for one applaud their bravery in putting their dc first.

Precisely. Women taking on the suffering themselves to protect their child from being in pain or having no quality of life is selfless. I don’t believe anyone who truly understands the trauma of a late stage abortion could be so cavalier with their language, as if those mothers are taking an easy route.

When you are the mother to a child with severe disabilities, there is no easy option. Whether you choose TFMR, or you proceed and have to watch your child suffer and suffer yourself.

Anybody who hasn’t had to deal with these things should be thanking their lucky stars that they and their children are healthy rather than making judgements about things they do not understand.

If someone had been able to tell me exactly what we’d be facing with my twins, I have no idea what I would have done - it’s impossible to say now, because I know them and I love them and they are my reason for getting out of bed every day. But I do know that choosing not to continue with the pregnancy would have destroyed me too. I am not sure I would have ever recovered from it, or ever had children after that.

There is no good option and there are no women choosing to delay a termination longer than is necessary.

Seeing condemnation from those who’ve never had to deal with this is really disturbing. None of these women choose to be in this situation, every single one of them would choose not to have to go through this, and to be fortunate enough never to have to worry about this.

@Deux I totally agree with you. I couldn't put my finger on why the video made me uneasy. It seems like Heidi is a convenient prop to promote someone else's agenda.

I hate this campaign.
Nobody is devaluing this young lady at all, however they are giving women the choice whether to continue with a pregnancy where the child has a significant disability. They should be a choice as far as possible and because people with DS are valued is not a reason to remove that choice.
I say this as a parent of a disabled child

You don,t think Heidi might have her own oppinion?

I mean other wise healthy children with Down syndrome.

How would you know whether your child would be otherwise healthy with DS, or would suffer from any number of the severe health complications commonly associated with DS?

Women do not terminate late stage pregnancies for “imperfections”.

You don,t think Heidi might have her own oppinion?

Why should Heidi's opinion trump other women's rights to bodily autonomy?

SinkGirl It appears some do.

june2007

According to whom?

SinkGirl It appears some do.

Does it? Do you have any evidence of that?

If you’re saying that women who have post-24 week terminations for DS are doing so because of imperfections, that’s a dreadful misrepresentation. Those women cannot know the extent of their child’s disability.

I’m a HCP working in abortion care. Please don’t worry on my behalf. If anything I take pride in supporting women to make choices about their own bodies and giving them care, empathy, and respect. The same is true for my colleagues. Don’t bring us into your arguments against termination of pregnancy.

I’ve seen this shared a few times on social media and it’s so upsetting. There should be no change in the law and, much as I respect this young woman’s right to do the campaigning that she is, I hope it fails entirely.

@Triggahippy but shouldn't we also take into account how people with Down Syndrome feel?

I am putting myself in their shoes, I am told that it is okay to abort me at a later stage than all other babies.

Wouldn't that make me feel awful. Wouldn't that make me feel worth less?

I also see the mother's side , of course I do. That she should not be kade to have a child that she cannot cope with. But I also see Heidi's side. And her feelings.

*made

There’s a very pertinent saying that ‘hard cases make bad policy’ which is entirely the case in this debate. In any policy area there is shades of grey and nuance at the edges. But you can’t legislate for all the potential shades of grey, you have to set some universal rules. And I’d much much rather those rules erred on the side of trusting women to make decisions.

I also agree that termination can be very needed, and can be done for very humane reasons: to stop terrible suffering of the mother and child.

But I also think that Heidi's opinion is important to be heard aswell

I've not got an issue with a woman taking control of her body and deciding not to continue a pregnancy for whatever reason but surely termination up until the babys coming down the birth canal would be traumatic for the mother, I'd be really frightened that the baby would suffer because it's so far along. I think my judgement is skewed because my dd was premature born at 30 weeks and survived. I just wonder why one would take almost 40 weeks to decide that they dont want the child? Surely if the woman has very bravely managed the entire pregnancy why not adoption? I hope I've not upset anyone

but shouldn't we also take into account how people with Down Syndrome feel?

Why should women's bodies be co-opted to protect the feelings of other people who don't agree with abortion and take other people's choices as a personal insult?

Heidi isn't going to be there with all the mother's whose lives have been sacrificed to make Heidi feel better about herself.

The notion that women should be forced to give birth and raise children against their will because a complete stranger would otherwise be offended is untenable.

Raspberry I think you should read the thread, as this has been covered. No one is waiting to the end of pregnancy to decide to abort. Where abortions happen after 24 weeks it’s because of the time it takes to detect the problem, diagnose it, possibly get second opinions and arrange the procedure.

@LonginesPrime I agree with abortion in alot of cases, and I understand that my opinion js only really relevant to me. I understand that every other woman should have control over their own bodies.

I understand all the terrible pain and trauma that women go through. And I understand why abortion is needed. I also would like to hear how abortion has made Heidi, and maybe the rest of the Down syndrome community feel. Both exist in my mind

This is only my own opinion.

I mean other wise healthy children with Down syndrome.

I'm no expert on DS but I know many have holes and other heart deformities. So not just the learning difficulties but real physical issues.

Somebody mentioned DS had a life expectancy of 8 years it's now 60. That tells me a lot of medical intervention is required for these young people.

I also wonder what would be said if a family had a DS child who they refused open heart surgery for?
Are they respected as a parent wanting to avoid the pain of the Op. Or are they wilfully denying the child care?

But how much of Heidi’s opinion is actually Heidi’s? It’s impossible to put oneself in Heidi’s position.

Had Heidi been terminated it would have been before 24 weeks in all likelihood so therefore, statistically, she would not have been discriminated against.

Furthermore Heidi has no experience of pregnancy and is very unlikely to do so and would never have to face that decision or have the cognitive ability to properly understand it.