Job offer - AIBU to be unhappy with this salary?

[Robin42]

I have never negotiated a salary before so I am completely unsure how far to push this and the etiquette!

I applied for a job within the NHS where the salary was advertised as "22,143 - 24,949".

I have been offered the job and they offered me the lowest salary. I was surprised because even though I have not worked this specific role, this role is as a band 4, and I have previously worked as a band 6.

I replied saying that I would love to accept the offer however I believe that I had the relevant skills and experience that would justify an increase in salary. Because I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get the higher amount and they obviously have it available?

They replied back today simply saying we have attached your revised offer, please let us know if you want to accept it, and they have only increased it to £22,909.

Like I said, I have never negotiated before so perhaps I was too soft in my original email, but that isn't much of an increase at all! They also haven't given any reason or justification as to why they aren't increasing it towards the higher end of the scale.

I really want the job so if they say that is their last offer I would still accept it anyway - but I just feel like if they advertised that amount, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get it as I believe I am more than experienced and competent for the role.

What do I do?!! I'm worried about looking really cheeky, but also the worst they can do is say no?? What should I respond back with?! Do I try and push for more?

daisypond there are people posting on this thread who differ in your opinion and also claim to have experience of the NHS/public sector.

There is nothing 'awkward' about negotiating for more pay. It's attitudes like this that keep women down. Thank god many of us are breaking free of self-limiting beliefs such as yours. I will continue to negotiate hard for every job I get using techniques detailed by others in this thread.

ashmts thank you for your useless feedback. I'm a single parent working full time living in the south east and commuting into London - so frankly none of that would be possible on that salary. It doesn't exactly make me a "high flyer".

@freelancedolly
I’ve not mentioned anything about it being “awkward” to negotiate a salary. And “ It's attitudes like this that keep women down. Thank god many of us are breaking free of self-limiting beliefs such as yours.“ Two of my friends who tried to negotiate, and failed - private sector - were male.

I work in the NHS and I think it depends on whether you're currently a band 6 and if it's relevant to the current job (like a nurse becoming a HCA). There is some room for negotiation in the NHS but not a huge amount.

Years ago I was an 8b, went on mat leave and relocated to another part of the country. Applied for a part time band 7 job in same speciality. Manager tried to put me at the bottom of a band 7 as it was 'trust policy'. I challenged and said I wouldn't be taking the role for less than top band 7 or I'd withdraw my acceptance and they offer to another candidate or go back out to recruitment again. I got top band 7. I knew my value, knew they had the budget for the top of the band and knew they were trying it on. It doesn't hurt to go back and say why you feel your previous experience makes you eligible for a higher point on the scale. They can't withdraw the offer for respectful challenge backed up by evidence. Good luck!

Just another anecdote to counter some of the misinformation on this post - I joined the NHS at band 8 level having never worked in the public sector and was offered one rung below the top of the banding.

Ultimately it's irrelevant whether you've spent some time out of the NHS, if you've got the experience to justify being at the top of the band then say this and go for it. There's no reason at all that you have to automatically start at the bottom if you're worth more. It's easier to argue if you go straight from one NHS role to another but not impossible in other situations.

I applied for a 5 as there was no 6 (I got a 6 eventually) and was offered the lowest on the band 5 scale. I successfully negotiated the top of the band 5 pay scale. A difference of £600 a month.
You can do it, I just made a list of my previous job responsibilities and included pay slips and said I would not be able to take the job unless I received the top of that grades payscale and I got it.

*Women are FAR too reticent about asking for pay rises, men are something like 10 times more likely to negotiate and therefore start on more money, because apparently we women suffer imposter syndrome and feel fortunate to get the job in the first place. Men apparently feel that the company was lucky to get them, and therefore get higher starting salaries.

Come on women, push for change, be brave, shrug off a lifetime of being socialised to be "nice"!**

Yep. My dh encourages the women in his office every year to ask for more money, they often don't. The men however go in to their reviews, put their dicks on the table and demand a raise.

I'm surprised you got a revised offer. In my trust, unless transferring directly from one trust to another, or between roles within our trust you start on the bottom of your band. If transferring, you start where you are transferring from IF it's a job in the same group, otherwise you go back to the bottom. No exceptions.

I thought it was debunked that women are less likely to ask for pay rises than men - they ask, but are less likely to receive, is what I had heard.

Tell them the amount you want

Completely agree with this advice. I probably wouldn't necessarily expect that they would offer at the top of the grade scale but you can get very close to it.

The fact that you previously worked at Band 6 is somewhat irrelevant here because there will always be a question as to why you aren't applying for a Band 6 role. If you apply for a Band 4 role, that, by default, means you will accept a Band 4 pay. However, it doesn't mean you will have to accept whatever they are offering within that band.

If you feel that your skills and experience are at the top of the band, then try to get as close as you can to the top end of the pay scale for that band.

Also banding isn't universal across the nhs- I'm a band 4c in my trust, but in Cambridge that'd be a band 7 (£38800). It's very odd!

If you don't ask, you certainly won't get. If you ask, you might!

So hilarious the smug "what would YOU know, you've never worked in the NHS" eye-rolling that's been going on here, only to be debunked by people with NHS experience countering that with encouraging words.

daisypond - you've expressed absolute "astonishment" that people don't 'get' the way the NHS works, despite others here saying they have experience of your adamant stance not being the case.

I have never heard of someone having a job offer withdrawn for trying to negotiate, I can only imagine the people you knew were extremely bad at it. OP, I think if you think you're worth more then hold out for it. I say this with some bias, I held out recently and ended up with a 40% pay rise having been promoted at work. This was in large part due to the amazing advice of a mentor who helped me keep going when I was going to cave after they offered less than half of that. Listen to the positive voices on here, particularly those with experience of your field, and read some good books that can help (I wasn't that big a fan of Lean In, but did enjoy reading Know Your Worth).

Good luck!

The only smug one is you with your 40% pay rise.

And you give away the real reason behind your negative attitude with that one sentence - clearly seething to think such good fortune should land upon someone. I mentioned my pay rise only at the end of this thread, to show that it CAN be done. Unlike your good self, I have not come on this thread hand-wringing and telling women not to be so arrogant as to think they deserve more. Trying for more CAN work. Unlike your message, which is if you try for more, you'll lose any job offer you may have. I'm so glad not to have that black cloud of pessimism hanging over my head when I wake up in the morning. What an Eeyore!

I haven’t mentioned anything about women. My anecdotes applied to men.

It is normal to start at the bottom of a band in most cases, but there is no harm in asking.

I was actually asked at an interview yesterday if I was expecting a bump up in my increments!

You can definitely negotiate within the band, although unfairly I think this is easier the more senior you are. Trusts are more willing to pay an extra 5k to recruit and butter up a band 7/8 as there tends to be only one/two of them in a team. Bumping a band 4 up a few increments might prompt lots of discontent from the wider team if they find out.

I think you have a fair argument, providing your b6 experience has some vague application to your b4 post. The idea of Agenda For Change increments is to reward loyalty and experience within the NHS, after all.

Definitely worth a punt. Make a clear argument and don't flinch or apologise, but I'd not expect more than 1-2 increments increased.

You can definitely negotiate within the band, although unfairly I think this is easier the more senior you are

This is a pertinent point. The lower down you are the less sway you have and band 4 roles are generally considered easier to fill than a band 6.

I didn’t pay much attention because I’m at the top of my banding but in my trust they’ve recently changed the structure so it takes longer to work up the increment levels. It’s caused a few waves of friction so I wouldn’t be surprised if the team recruiting are conscious of this too.