Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Job offer - AIBU to be unhappy with this salary?

120 replies

Robin42 · 27/02/2020 16:00

I have never negotiated a salary before so I am completely unsure how far to push this and the etiquette!

I applied for a job within the NHS where the salary was advertised as "22,143 - 24,949".

I have been offered the job and they offered me the lowest salary. I was surprised because even though I have not worked this specific role, this role is as a band 4, and I have previously worked as a band 6.

I replied saying that I would love to accept the offer however I believe that I had the relevant skills and experience that would justify an increase in salary. Because I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get the higher amount and they obviously have it available?

They replied back today simply saying we have attached your revised offer, please let us know if you want to accept it, and they have only increased it to £22,909.

Like I said, I have never negotiated before so perhaps I was too soft in my original email, but that isn't much of an increase at all! They also haven't given any reason or justification as to why they aren't increasing it towards the higher end of the scale.

I really want the job so if they say that is their last offer I would still accept it anyway - but I just feel like if they advertised that amount, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't get it as I believe I am more than experienced and competent for the role.

What do I do?!! I'm worried about looking really cheeky, but also the worst they can do is say no?? What should I respond back with?! Do I try and push for more?

OP posts:
Missarad · 27/02/2020 21:18

You dont negotiate with nhs. Just leave the job

freelancedolly · 27/02/2020 21:21

This is one where I'm really surprised it's not an outright win for YANBU - I think you should definitely stick to your guns, and if you don't fight for the higher amount now you'll never get a significant increase unless you get promoted within the organisation.

Are you prepared to walk away? I think the lower end is a very low f/t salary - don't take it unless you think you'll be happy week in, week out, working for that amount.

user1511042793 · 27/02/2020 21:22

If you’ve been a band six recently then you are entitled to top of band 4. However if it’s been some years then you won’t. Best to ring hr for the trust and they will clarify. Bit if your last job was a six then you automatically go to top of four. Doesn’t matter of role not relevant.

ashmts · 27/02/2020 21:29

@freelancedolly - she never will get a significant increase unless she gets promoted... That's literally how the banding system in the NHS works. People should really stop advising on things they know nothing about. The higher end of that range is the absolute maximum a band 4 can earn (excluding overtime and unsocial hours of course).

OP - I'd take it. £2000 a year difference doesn't work out as very much per month after tax and pension etc, I don't think it's worth risking the offer over. Even if they didn't rescind the offer, I can't imagine it would leave them with a great first impression.

TheyDoDoThat · 27/02/2020 21:37

I would be inclined to take the offer. You are negotiating a civil service job not a position and a global company. They are not playing hardball. They probably admired your gall to ask for higher and rewarded it. Further digging your heals in may make them re think hiring you.
You would normally start on the lower end of the band and it will increase to the top.

GladAllOver · 27/02/2020 21:49

Haven't RTFT, but unless it specifically says "starting salary x to y", it means you start at x and progress to y.

CoffeeRunner · 27/02/2020 21:56

I don't quite understand this either.

Band 6 is Sister level. A senior trained nurse. Band 4 is Flow Co-Ordinator, PA, Nursing Associate.

If you have applied for a job with less responsibility of course you expect lower pay. Nobody starts a new job on the highest increment.

It's a different job. Your past level doesn't count.

buttonmoonb4tea · 27/02/2020 21:59

Dunno how the bonus thing works. Every year I get a letter that calculates a % bonus in lieu of scale rise because I can't go up.

It's also related to performance

I took a 60% pay cut when I went to civil service from private - totally different role and sector. I moved out of London.

Money doesn't motivate me hence I don't really know

@dungtwicebother this is really quite unfair and an example of how some public sector organisations such as civil service are to be blunt, dodgy in their financing of resources, ie higher grade employees.

Other organisations such as local authorities and NHS literally have a pay banding and once you're at the top of it, that's it, no more increments unless you are promoted to higher scale.

Couple that with the lack of pay increases local authorities have had over the last 10 years, and the cost of living going up and most public sector employees have actually taken a pay cut especially those on the lower end of the pay hand.

Hearing this really pisses me off. Nothing personal of course.

cactus2020 · 27/02/2020 22:10

Seems entirely normal for the NHS. If you wanted a band 6, apply for one. Your previous seniority is not relevant re. pay. Nothing to stop you asking, but it's entirely reasonable. Why not look for a 6?

Cornettoninja · 27/02/2020 22:29

Going from a band 6 to 4 implies that the role you’ve applied for isn’t one that you necessarily have recent/any experience in?

I think it’s fair enough to ask to skip a couple/few increments but I would be mindful as how it came across. You risk coming across as not understanding the role you’ve applied for or what responsibilities you would be expected to fulfil or escalate above yourself if it falls outside your remit.

The NHS is very hierarchical and territorial and a band 4 colleague swanning around telling everyone how they used to be a band 6 would go down like a cup of cold sick in any team I’ve ever worked in.

Asdf12345 · 27/02/2020 22:34

It is possible to negotiate but you generally have to play hard ball and be prepared to walk away. If they are struggling to recruit they may budge a lot, some trusts are more flexible than others.

There is a limit, my other half was asked to apply for an nhs post advertised at band five, when we pointed out the going rate was band 8 they admitted that might explain why they couldn’t get suitable candidates but could still only informally offer band six if they applied.

Intelinside57 · 27/02/2020 23:03

I think some of the people advising on this thread don't understand how pay progression works in the NHS and other public sector roles. Op will start somewhere on the scale 4 payscale, but it's very unlikely (not impossible but massively unlikely) that she'll start anywhere near the top. Once started she'll get annual performance management review to work her way up the scale - one point at a time.

Doesn't matter what someone has done in the past, the pay scale is decided by an assessment being made of the job description. So when you reach the top of the scale that job is assessed at, that's it apart from any annual percentage uplift.

AlexCrowe84 · 27/02/2020 23:17

My OH spent 20 years as a police officer, on top earning salary (nearly £40k) before we relocated and she took on a civilian role within the police in our new county.
She started right at the bottom of the pay grade for the new role, (not even £20k) despite extensive previous experience.
I didn't realise you could negotiate...

Thedogscollar · 27/02/2020 23:43

NHS are fixed pay scales, like nearly every post on here states you start at bottom and work your way up on yearly increments. Your previous B6 role has no bearing on the B4 role.

TiddleTaddleTat · 28/02/2020 07:13

Granted I'm not in the NHS but I am very much public sector and when I was offered the bottom of the pay range I negotiated to be moved up. They put up a fight and made me justify it extensively but then they gave in and provided it. I still move up every year.

freelancedolly · 28/02/2020 11:55

Why would they advertise a position with a range, if they have no intention of paying the top of that range? If the maximum they are prepared to pay someone already very qualified for the position is at the bottom of the range, then don't advertise a range which suggests you would pay more?

I would walk away from it, but then I could no way afford to live on that salary.

BarbaraofSeville · 28/02/2020 12:19

Because if they give the job to someone who is currently working at band 4, they will go in at whatever level they are currently on, so if they are doing a different band 4 job and have been in the band for long enough to get up to the top of the band they will continue to earn the same salary.

The OP says that 'she has previously worked as a band 6'. I don't know if a band 6 who was leaving a band 6 job in the same employer to start a band 4 job would go in any higher than the bottom, especially if they have worked their way up from bands 4 and 5 to 6 already, but the deciding factor here appears that she has left the NHS, gone elsewhere and is now coming back.

I also don't know if previous experience is relevant. Very different jobs could be in the same band, clinical and non clinical, say the OPs band 6 job was something like a senior nurse and this new role is an admin job, she doesn't have relevant experience, but the band 6 post could also have been admin, eg office manager and she could have got to the office manager position by way of admin assistant (band 4), promotion to a more senior band 5 admin post, and then the band 6 admin manager post.

As others have said, someone coming from outside will almost certainly start at the bottom of the band, but if any of the above factors apply - the OP has previously gone up the steps in band 4 in a relevant post with another employer, then it is worth asking for more money, but there's a good chance she won't get it, because if budgets are tight and there are other good candidates willing to start at the bottom of the band, then they may get offered the job instead.

JeffJarrett · 28/02/2020 12:21

NHS payroll officer here, if the band 6 post is related to the band 4 post and the skills are transferable, (I.e, same department, less responsibility) then it would be wholly reasonable to request the top of the band 4 salary. Even then, that would be at the discretion of HR and your new manager.

If it isn't related and/or you've had a gap in service then I wouldn't expect them to bump you up at all, as you will need to train and gain experience in the band 4 post. Anything extra would be a bonus.

GladAllOver · 28/02/2020 15:20

Why would they advertise a position with a range, if they have no intention of paying the top of that range?
So that an applicant knows how far they might progress in that position. There's no promise of starting anywhere but the bottom.

daisypond · 28/02/2020 18:14

Why would they advertise a position with a range, if they have no intention of paying the top of that range?
Because that indicates the range in that particular pay scale. You start generally at the bottom and after several years you get to the top. It indicates the maximum you will get paid while doing that job. I’m astonished gat people don’t understand that.

WaggleWiggle · 28/02/2020 21:03

The range should be the amount they are willing to pay the new starter, not what they won’t pay now but will do in five years!

GladAllOver · 28/02/2020 21:33

I'm afraid your should be is wishful thinking. That's not how it works.

tealandteal · 28/02/2020 21:42

There is some confused advice here. If you currently work for the NHS and can provide a pay slip dated within the last 3 months proving your B6 salary then you should be palced on the top of band 4. If you have been out of the NHS for a while then the budget holder (which may not be the person that hired you) can decide at which point in the pay scale they will place you. Keeping in mind the rest of their team and the fact the post will probably have been budgeted at mid band level. There are no longer yearly pay increments, so whilst you do go up a pay point each year, several pay points have the same salary associated with them so you only see an actual rise in in salary every 3 or 4 years (outside of any rise in line with inflation).

LadyTiredWinterBottom2 · 28/02/2020 21:43

It's the salary range. The top end is the most you can earn for that role. Pretty much everyone starts at the bottom of the range.

ashmts · 29/02/2020 12:59

@freelancedolly "I would walk away from it, but then I could no way afford to live on that salary."

Thanks for your useless input. This is actually such a rude statement, do you have any idea what % of the country are living on similar salaries, and doing very worthwhile jobs to earn them? Total lack of understanding of public sector.