“Priority debts”

[PumpkinP]

I’m really at a loss with child maintenance and feel like I’m banging my head against a wall! My ex hasn’t paid maintenance in 3 years. I’ve been to the cms but can’t get anywhere. I have 4 children and I don’t get a penny from the father. I have just called cms as they told me they would do a liability order 6+ months ago. As I hadn’t heard anything I thought I would chase it up. Well according to them because he is on benefits and has “priority debts” he doesn’t have to pay cm. people on here seem to think that if you are not receiving maintenance it’s because you are not doing enough to chase it but I have tried for years. And because my ex has other debts he doesn’t have to pay maintenance! How is that right?!

‘Priority’ debts are those - usually paid to Govt & Local Authorities - where payment is statutory & non-compliance can lead to severe penalties.

Another good reason for adopting my "lock them up" proposal!

If they could be sent to prison for not paying maintenance, unpaid maintenance would become a "priority debt".

@Metalhead.
And rent arrears are not taken out of UC, he must have other debts that are being deducted at source (could be anything like utility debts or court fines).

Rent arrears ARE deducted from UC if they are a Council/LHA tenant.

that is totally shit.

(1) as a pp said, non payment of cms should be prosecuted as child neglect. it cannot be possible to simply opt out of parental responsibility like this.

(2) if a NRP is on benefits, the amount they are awarded should include an amount earmarked for cms which is then deducted and paid direct to the RP. their uc claim should not be as a single person - they have responsibilities.

It’s not always men who don’t pay maintenance, non resident mothers don’t always pay either.

"I think the government should step in and pay at least the basic rate for the children in this scenario"

The government would say that they already do this via the benefit system where families don't have enough to live on. Of course, we all know that it's nowhere near enough and that the threshold at which UC/TCs stop is too low, but that's a different argument.

Funnily enough, they're happy to ignore child maintenance when calculating benefits, for the parents that do get it paid. I've met people getting hundreds (in one case, £2k a month) in maintenance while claiming means-tested benefits and that doesn't seem fair, either.

Another example of how the system is kinder to those more well off.

SusanneLinder maybe it differs by region - where I am we pretty much have only HAs and I’ve never seen them get third party deductions for arrears, they just seem to go for possession.

It's not just mothers screwed over. My partner recently found out his ex wife has been claiming he has not had them overnight since he left, despite a court order suggesting otherwise. He's overpaid her by approx £3k and theres nothing he can do about it. (Oh and he's never once missed paying)

I really sympathise but he is on benefits and has priority debts and that means Council tax and rent arrears.

Priority is the govt is paid first.

Does he work and if not, why not?

as a pp said, non payment of cms should be prosecuted as child neglect. it cannot be possible to simply opt out of parental responsibility like this.

So what then they go to prison, which the taxpayer pays for, and they aren't able to work at all whilst in prison so no maintenance at all. Then they have a criminal record so harder to get a job.

Yes that will really help

So sorry OP. It is shit. Sadly I'm not surprised. I am more surprised that people on mn always say "go to cms" as though this magically ensures the rp has sufficient maintenance paid. My mother never got maintenance for me, ever (and she was in council housing and on benefits). I know many fathers who pay the absolute minimum - so low it's laughable like £6 a week per child or something stupid. I know a woman currently who works all day and now has to work a second job in the evenings and weekends because her ex won't contribute for their 3 kids (who she now hardly sees and has to beg babysitting favours from friends, neighbours and family since ex is "too busy" to have them and she can't afford to pay for childcare). The system is ridiculous and not fit for purpose.

Its shit isn't it?
I haven't had a penny in 12 years!

If the government had to pay these arrears you bet your life they would find a way to claim the money back.

They still wouldn't

It used to be that if the RP was on benefits then only the first £20 a week went to them and the rest of maintenance was owed to the Secretary of State.

Even when the money was owed to government coffers they didn't bother enforcing (Even though CMS and CSA before them have wide ranging powers) it to the point that the debt just got so big they said "Actually, RP's can keep it all and we won't count it for benefits"

Until the majority of the money isn't owned by men - i.e never - chasing and enforcing maintenance will never be a priority for any government

Just to answer a few questions. The man has not been working or claiming benefits for 3 years, hence why cms was going to do a liability order. He has only been claiming them since November so he has obviously been getting by (cash in hand most likely) so like I said no need to feel sorry for him, he has obviously supported himself for 3 years without having to claim benefits or work. He lives in a HA property so they can take the rent arrears out of his UC. He also has lodgers like I said but they pay cash in hand so can’t prove anything there. Cms weren’t interested in finding out what he was doing in the 3 years he wasn’t working or claiming benefits. I expected to at least be entitled to something from him now that he is claiming, but obviously not.

Surfer25 it would help because they wouldn’t want to go to prison so would pay.

Prison is actually one of the things already on the list of powers CMS can apply to use

It’s supposed to to be a deterrent, just like the loss of driving license or having a charge order on your house

CMS don’t even use the powers they have without a court order (the can take money from a bank or savings account on a one off or regular basis without even going for a liability order) so the deterrent factor is zilch as NRP’s know they won’t get used

There are no consequences so they don’t care. Has anyone ever been sent to prison for not paying cm?! Very much doubt it. I wonder if in the time he is not
Paying as he has priority debts are arrears actually building or does it not count because he technically doesn’t have to pay.

It has happened, but so rarely it has hit the press and was roundly seen as too harsh

I still get grief over speaking to my ex’s senior officers because I realised being embarrassed was the only way he’d pay. The fact he was told his part of the military would view a DEO best dimly and affect his promotion chances is the only reason he pays.

Still now several people, who used to be joint friends, refer to me as “the money grabber” and think I deliberately tried to kill his career

I was berated by someone I'd considered a mutual friend as the CSA assessment came out "higher" than my ex, and ny extension, his friends, thougt that he should pay. I wasn't surprised when said mutual "friend" lowballed his wife with their divorce settlement .

We need far harsher punishments for all parents that fail to financially support a child themselves. It’s too easy currently to opt out.

Not to hijack the thread, but as there are lots of valid points on this thread about the cost of childcare, I just want to mention another thread which is currently seeking opinions for a parliamentary debate about bringing in 15 hrs free childcare for 9 month olds. If anyone wants to add their thoughts and experiences to the parliamentary debate, please, please do so:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/going_back_to_work/3839359-MNHQ-here-are-you-returning-to-work-or-have-you-recently-returned-after-parental-leave-Tell-the-Petitions-Committee-about-your-experiences