To be fucked off with the doctors situation

[StopFancyingPeople]

I’m so sick of the fight to get a doctors appointment. It never used to be so difficult and now it’s near on impossible.

I rang at 8am on Monday like you’re meant to. Automated message .... press 1 for appointments ... I press 1. I then get a long automated lecture about Coronovirus and then get told to press 1 again if I still want an appointment and have no symptoms of CV. I press 1. Automated message telling me the lines are very busy and press 1 for a call back. I press 1 and head off to work. They ring back at 9:30 when I’m upto my eyes in it at work and can’t answer the phone.

I try again Tuesday. Same kerfuffle with the automated messages. I request a call back and head off to work. Get a call back at 11am by which point there are no appointments left.

I try again yesterday. Same old shit. No appointments left by the time they ring me back. I lost my shit a little as I feel so Ill. I need to see a fucking doctor. It shouldn’t be this difficult!!! They sympathise and offer me an appointment ... for the end of March!!!!

I’m barely functioning. I’m incredibly fatigued, constant headache, nausea, anxious mess and not sleeping. Yesterday I could barely stay awake whilst driving home. Last night I went to bed do fucking tired that I woke up in a pool of my own piss. I didn’t even wake up for a wee. 2nd night in a row that I’ve wet the bed.

AIBU to call dr again today, make up some shit just to get an emergency same day appointment?! I don’t even feel that I should need to make shit up, I think I genuinely need to see a Dr today.

The annoying thing is, when you do by some miracle of god get to see a GP they then decide you need a blood test. Now god forbid the GP do this test there and then ... noooo .... you’ll have to make another appointment for a nurse to do it and good luck getting that within the next month or so.

It’s ridiculous. The system is fucking failing.

Also, as a nurse I see this from other people’s points of view too. A woman made up an excuse to come to my clinic last week. When she got there she asked me to diagnose something she had as she’d been trying to get a dr appointment for 3 weeks and has all the ducking symptoms of cancer. I could not help her, she needed to see a GP 3 weeks ago.

bobbypinseverywhere you have such a chip on your shoulder and you obviously have no interest in making improvements that would make everyone's life easier, the patient and admin staff for sure.

No reason why the young woman who does the blood tests can't have slots during or immediately after surgery times. Imagine how much more efficient it would be, tests done quickly, admin staff not overwhelmed by people trying to get an appointment, it isn't just one call as GP tells you that you need the test so book an appointment in the next day or two and the receptionist tells you the next appointment is two weeks away so the appointment dance starts with you phoning in to see if there is a cancellation. How much easier would the receptionist's job be if those calls weren't needed, how much better to get the blood test back quickly which might need urgent attention. Don't tell me it is impossible for the person doing the blood tests to fit it in, ultimately she would be doing the same number of tests, just needs someone with some management skills to sort some stuff out.

I don't hate GPs, what a childish thing to say, I hate inefficiency and the shambles that my local surgery is. The same partnership runs every surgery in my town so no chance to change to somewhere run differently. As an example my husband has a complicated medical condition but he rarely sees the GP considering how serious his condition is. If he needs to see GP we are told he isn't allowed to make an appointment without permission (this goes for every patient) so we give receptionist run down on problem, she passes it to doctor who is doing triage and we wait for a call back, sometimes the same day sometimes not. Go through everything with the triage doctor who will agree he needs to be seen and he/she will inform reception to make an appointment, can't transfer us so call ends and we start trying to get through to make an appointment, as other people on here confirm that can take days. The GP he sees has told reception he wants them to make appointment without going through triage, he knows DH doesn't abuse system, he is overruled and we have to go through the system. He prescribes a certain med in a certain quantity, for repeats someone screens prescriptions and they reduce the quantity which means as soon as we get the med we have to order the next lot and get 3 prescriptions a month instead of one. As his carer, pushing 70, I have to sort that out. GP has put in request for med to be in quantity he prescribes but the system says no.

So much time wasted for so many people.

it’s the system failing. Please stop blaming the victims, aka the most vulnerable. Sums it up in a nutshell.

Also in Scotland.

My surgery runs three drop in surgeries a week where if you turn up, you'll be seen. There are two additional drop ins for emergencies only. If I need an appointment it's usually for the following week.

DSis had a terminal illness and had a problem with meds while staying with me. Called surgery for advice and they said to bring her in that afternoon where a doctor saw us immediately. They issued an emergency prescription because her nursing home hadn't provided the right drugs for her stay.

Can't fault our local GP service at all. Genuinely caring practice.

@1forsorrow
Most Gp surgeries now use a phlebotomist to take bloods. In mine, they come once a week (Friday) and the bloods get taken straight to the hospital for testing. If bloods were taken every day, they would need to go to the hospital every day. Blood needs to be tested on the same day it's taken. So using a phlebotomist this way is much more efficient both in terms of time and money which impacts on the patients ultimately. If a doctor saw 20 patients in a session, and decided every one of them needed a blood test taking 2 minutes, that's 40 minutes of time when the GP won't be seeing other patients, or four 10 minute consultations. (Any patient who attends on Friday can get their blood taken on that day, so it pays to get a Friday appointment 😀)

It's not always vulnerable people NomDeDieu. I trust Bobbypins to know more about who is vulnerable among the people she actually sees and whose medical records she has in front of her, than your proclamation.

You can't go to the GP with every minor complaint 'just in case'. Life's all about judging risk and you have to be able to do that as an adult.

Pharmacists can tell you if you need to go to the GP, I'm sure someone with many years training and clinical experience is capable of that.

Mental health is a massive issue I'd agree with you there. But turning up at the GPs surgery every week with an imaginary physical issue will not solve that.

This has made me realise how lucky I am. I called at 9am today and managed to get a telephone appointment for 9.15am. And now have a face-to-face appointment at 11am for a possible bacterial chest infection. Not something I would usually go to the GP with, but I'm going to trust the doctor's judgement in asking to see me.

We can usually get an appointment when we want one here. It's a fairly 'naice' area in the South West.

For those saying call 111, in our area(south/south east) 111 cannot book you an OOH appointment or any other GP appointment during the normal working day, only if you call after 6.30 can we do that. It’s not us being awkward, it’s just the way it is.

@StopFancyingPeople I don’t think your GP practice was at all unreasonable to call you back at 9.30. That sounds like a decent response time to me. It isn’t their fault that you couldn’t take the call! Was it really impossible to say ‘excuse me’ and leave the room to take the call?

Why are you still working if you are that unwell? You are putting everyone in danger if you can’t stay awake. Take time off, see a doctor and get better soon. I know it’s easier said than done, but you need to take difficult actions, such as letting down your patients, to get the treatment you urgently need.

@Greenandpleasanter, you do?
Can you tell me how you can judge one poster has more insight than another? And why?

@1forsorrow your attitude towards me is exactly what i am talking about. You had a go at me for no reason on another thread, repeatedly, and when other posters told you you were wrong you just ignored it. And now you are again saying "i have a chip on my shoulder" and 'I'm childish' for apparently very little reason. Why do i have a chip on my shoulder? what evidence do you have for that?

As for your suggestions re the blood tests -you do realise that they do run phlebotomy services at the same time as GP clinics -but they are already fully booked. It isn't just 'acute' bloods we need to book in, the reason the clinics are already full is usually down to routine bloods etc that need scheduling in ahead of time. The reason you can walk straight from the GP into having a blood test done, is that the slots are prebooked to ensure the maximum capacity was used. If we left lots of free slots and then none were needed, (as you can't tell what will be required on the day/what patients are going to come in with) that would be an even bigger waste of time and resources. I can assure you the reason for the wait for GP/nurse/blood test appointments isn't because we are inefficient, its because they demand is exceeding capacity. We are understaffed.

And as for me 'having no interest in making improvements' - I'm sorry where the hell have you got that from? I have worked myself to the bone for 15 years for the NHS, at the expense of my mental, physical and personal health so don't say that to me.

YANBU

But turning up at the GPs surgery every week with an imaginary physical issue will not solve that.

Yep that behaviour is exactly the type of behaviour that says MH issues. And you’re rigt. It’s not solved by the visit. But the reason for the visit is the failure in supporting those people

@bobbypinseverywhere, yep the system is failing because it is totally understaffed.
And imo it has only carried on so long thanks to people like you who did more in their JOB that most people will ever do.

OP to me your symptoms do sound as if they warrant an emergency appt, mainly the bedwetting as that seems sudden and unusual.

I think some booking issues are related to Govt targets. So they set a target of patients getting an appt within 24 hours of ringing (say). Surgeries meet this by only allowing same day appts. Useless for most people who have work or other commitments BUT they meet the target.

The main prob for NHS is chronic (deliberate?) underfunding and clueless ministers.

@NomDeDieu i would say that HCPs (of any background, Drs/nurse/HCA etc) have a better idea of what the state of the NHS and the problems within it than the average person yes. So unless you have a healthcare background, i think its a fair statement. And i agree with @Greenandpleasanter actually, i have a lot of people waste appointments that don't need to be seen. Thats a fact. The vast majority of them aren't vulnerable. Yes there have been government cuts, but the UK public also needs to take greater responsibility for themselves for minor illness/injuries and keeping themselves healthy.

My surgery has an online system where a number of appointments are loaded at 7am and you can book then. They are not available over the phone, those appointments are separate.
Any unbooked online appointments are available by phone after 10:30 am. They also do OOH at the local huge practice.

It's been like that for a couple of years now and it seems to be working.

Saw my GP yesterday for the 1st time in 18 months and they were swamped! She was so apologetic too and was only running about 10 mins late.

at my GP surgery (not in UK) they have 3 treatment rooms, so while a patient is with the GP, the next two are being pre-checked (BP etc) for the doctor. It works really well actually. The nurse either takes blood samples right after, if needed, or you make an appointment to come the next morning (if you have to have one on an empty stomach)

In Germany a few (not sure how long now) years ago they introduced a EUR 10 charge (per quarter) to see the GP, dentist, OBGYN etc. You only paid the first time you went in that quarter and showed the receipt to the others if you went to a different one (a pain if you had to go back and your appointments spanned different quarters)

What they found was that it didn't significantly reduce visits in general. But a closer look revealed that people without much disposable income just didn't go to the doctor, with related (more expensive to the health-service) consequences. So they stopped it.

Awful OP, I sympathise. This is one of the reasons A&E are so busy and it's only going to get worse. I've recently moved my family to another small practice for exactly this reason. When our GP retired a year ago we got moved to a large modern practice, lovely new premises etc. But 25,000 patients and impossible to get an appointment. Either queue along with 50 or more others at 7.00m for when it opens at 8 or spend half an hour on the phone trying to get through at 8 when you're either doing the school run or on your way to work. Book online ... nothing for 3 weeks. I'm very much hoping the small "old fashioned" practice we've moved to is going to be better, they had great reviews and you can still actually call and speak to someone to book an appointment for a few day's time. Here's hoping.

Bobby, please don't take it to heart. You sound like a wonderful GP and I am so sorry you are being forced to leave. I am a midwife and so have some understanding as to the state of the NHS. I hope you can find a suitable job somewhere else and that your valuable skills aren't lost. Good luck

Soontobe60, they do blood tests at our surgery every day and they are taken to the hospital every day. There is a cut off time for tests so they don't miss the collection.

This situation is awful, and I agree with everything you've said.

In the interest of getting this solved ASAP, do you have £100 you could spare? If so, just go to a private GP.

I know this perpetuates the selling off of the NHS. But just for you, for getting somewhere today, it may be the best option if you have it.

NomDeDieu because Bobbypins is talking about the patients they actually see in their own surgery. Even if you were a GP yourself, which you haven't claimed to be, I would still judge them better placed to judge their own patients.

But the reason for the visit is the failure of supporting those people and that's the one part of your list that I agreed with.

But just because some people are going to the doctors with minor issues because of their mental health, that doesn't mean that all people who go to the GP with minor complaints have mental health issues. It's fallacious reasoning. And I come back to my point that I think Bobbypins is better able to judge that than you are with their own patients.

Any patient who attends on Friday can get their blood taken on that day, so it pays to get a Friday appointment It might be like that at your surgery, I can assure you it isn't like that at the surgery I use, you won't necessarily get one for the following week. I am certain of that as it happened to my husband, waited over a week for a blood test, came back on the Friday morning, looked at at 4 pm and then started a panic to get him into hospital which failed as no beds. So a timely blood test would have avoided alot of time trying to get him treatment which involved a GP working late, would have avoided a very worrying weekend for all concerned and prolonged treatment.

OP, it sounds as if you need to call the surgery back right now and get an emergency appointment. I’d be concerned you’re treating patients in your current condition.

I know you keep pressing 1 for call back, but can you stay on the line and wait? I’ve been 15th in the queue before but stayed on the line and eventually got to speak to receptionist.

I believe the current advice is to wait until you drop dead, or go private.

Doctors and nurses are leaving because almost every country in the world offers them something better. Not enough money, not enough staff, too many patients, too many idiots clogging up the A&E because they're drunk, too many old people in this country, too many Tories sticking their hands in the budget, too many young people deciding not to do medicine or nursing degrees because why the hell would they want to go and work for the nhs, too many politicians treating it like a pawn in a chess game for their own personal gain... the list goes on forever.

In short, the NHS is fucked. We need a new plan.