Are our builders taking the piss?

[HotGlueGun]

We have been planning some building/ renovation works to our house. Settled on a building company who quoted c.£50k for the work. A key part of the discussion throughout (started this process in August last year) was that the work be carried out before I return to work at end of April (on mat leave). I paid a 10% deposit, per their terms, back in November, on the basis that their diary was getting booked up and to secure the work being done in Q1. That's 3 months ago and I've had to chase and chase for even an indication of when they might be able to start. In the meantime, they want another £5k. Am I being unreasonable in withholding this cash until I get an actual indication of when they might be able to start? Technically I am in breach of contract but surely it's reasonable to expect a vague idea of when they might be able to start?

ask them to justify why and what has the last 5K gone on .TBH paying 10k without any work done sound too risky.

Q1?????

@Vikki69 .... sorry, work-speak! Quarter 1 ie. Jan, Feb, Mar

How can you be on breach of contract....
Technically, the contract has not started...🙄🙄🙄

My builder took payment as they did the work on a weekly basis. There is no way I would pay them any more money, what has the last 5k been spent on? They haven’t done anything, what would the contract expect payment for? I would be getting some legal advice at this point.

Actually they are in breach of contract if you made it a term of the contract that work be completed before April particularly as they haven't started. If you do need to pay some upfront, pay on a cc.

I would definitely be asking about the original £5k and what it has been used for. Why would they need more money now unless you're funding previous builds / jobs?

Did you make it clear (do you have written correspondence ) that you stated it needed to be completed by April? I'd make that 100% clear in every message between you and the builders from now until the work commences.

We had someone come to work on our house, they quoted something like 2-3 weeks but 3 months later I told them to do one cause they were messing us around so much. They tried to claim I owed them money for work that I'd agreed they could do (so lost earnings effectively). But I made it clear that they'd grossly gone over the times they suggested, and missed a bunch of deadlines I'd given them over the following 3 months so they were in breach of contract.

I'm not suggesting that your builders will do that to you, just make sure you have a record of when they agreed to have the work done as your contract (and deposit) was based on this.

Vikki69 just because work has not started the contract still exists 🙄

definitely no more money until the work starts.

And before they start you need to agree stage payments for work/progress.

IE x amount when foundations dug
x amount when foundations in etc.
otherwise you risk being taken for a mug like I was.

I paid weekly for materials and man hours only to be told that He wanted another £45k to finish the job (On top of £110k quote) as the money had run out. And despite having supposedly given me a turnkey price found every little detail that wasn't specifically quoted for and wanted huge amounts for every little detail.

Their terms are 10% as an initial deposit, 10% on approval of plans (which we were only asked to do last week) and then further staged payments as the project progresses. I've approved the plans but have been fobbed off re: start date. My £5k is obviously supporting cash flow on their other jobs.

To add insult to injury, they have now come back with some other things out of the survey which they say haven't been costed. One of these is included in the plans which forms part of the contract... so if they haven't factored in the cost, that's their error. The other is a minor point regarding roof tiles on a small section of roof. I've googled the tiles... they cost £1 each and we need max £100 tiles. They have quoted me £4k for this additional work. I've got alternative quotes and the next most expensive is £900. So I really do feel like we are being ripped off but not sure if I can get out of the contract now.

@Curiosity101 ... i will need to go back and check the wording of my emails re: timescale for completion. I have requested a start date in pretty much every email since November but not sure whether I specifically had it in writing prior to that... I genuinely didn't expect to not have had a date some 3m later.

Were you given a quote or an estimate? If you have an estimate then it's open to alterations in price. If you were given a quote then they legally have to stick to completing the work for the amount quoted or cancel the job and return your deposit.

Unless you have a number of personal recommendations for this company I'd be very cautious.

@Curiosity101 they are supposedly a reputable company and our friends had work done by them. It's a fixed price contract. They have now told me that they are starting the preliminary works and have ordered the materials but I've lost confidence in them and I don't think I they've acted with integrity re: the additional roofing quote. The owner of the company came out last week to see our house and, I suspect, he is not happy with what the designer has quoted and so is now trying to find ways to increase his profit margin. Ideally I'd like to get out of the contract but don't want to risk losing my deposit... if they HAVE bought materials then I guess I'm stuffed and have to see it through.

Tbh if it was financially doable, i would be considering cutting my losses now and writing off the 5k already paid and finding someone else.

Especially if they are giving you additional quotes for 4k for a job under 1k. Would probably save money in the long run to write off the 5k. Defo do not give them any more money.

@ScottishStottie .... I've not ruled this out. Thing is, we want the work doing and it will be too much upheaval of it happens after I've gone back to work. They are coming out on Friday to undertake yet another survey. It's really not even that big a job... mostly refurbishment so no groundworks/ planning permission required.

@Khione ... your experience sounds awful. This is what I'm worried about!

It's a fixed price contract

Someone else mentioned it but I would definitely be considering legal advice. Like I said, if it was a written as a quote then they have to stand by it or cancel the contract if you're not happy with the changes. If they cancel the contract they should return your deposit.

I'm not sure exactly at what point an estimate becomes a 'quote' but I feel like you'd have a strong position if it was a fixed price contract.

However... I'd definitely plan to speak to the person in charge to explain all of your thinking and have a good chat about it all. If you did decide to proceed then you'll need to clear the air and rebuild that trust first.

As someone else mentioned you also need to make sure you're 100% clear on what you're paying by when. And don't do it by time, do it by completion of steps. Otherwise you end up at the end of the project and you've paid all the money but could have half an extension and you're over a barrel.

But if at all possible I wouldn't allow the £5k deposit to keep me tied to them doing the work. £5k is only 10% of the amount they've quoted so far... and that number is already going up.

Also make sure they have insurance.

It's definitely a fixed price contract but there's a caveat that says they reserve the right to request more money if required, in order to comply with building regs. This is how they are justifying charging me for the additional roofing.... the tiles currently on it do not comply and will not match the tiles that they will be putting on the small extension... hence requiring it to be re-done. They want to charge me £4K, I presume, because they've underpriced elsewhere.... but this is just conjecture. The owner came to visit our house and it was just all very strange... he was very stoney faced. I've asked for transparency on the costings of the roofing and I've just been told that I can't see them, that "that's the price".

there's a caveat that says they reserve the right to request more money if required, in order to comply with building regs

The changes still have to be reasonable. In this case if the next closest quote was less than 25% then their additions don't seem reasonable.

Out of interest, why did you get a separate quote for that roofing work?

Just to add - their additions don't seem reasonable to me. But I don't know anything about contract / building laws, only the bits and pieces I picked up over the years as we renovated a couple of houses.

They sound like rip-off merchants, frankly. I would get another builder to check if the roof really does need 4k spent on it or even ask building control to assess it to see if what the builder is saying is right, and I would definitely also ask for an invoice detailing what the first 5k was spent on. But really, I'd be looking for an alternative firm. It sounds like your relationship is already deteriorating before the work has even started and I fear it will only get worse. If you can't communicate without him getting 'stoney faced' it'll be awful.

@Curiosity101 I got another quote because I knew that it wasn't £4K of work and I wanted 2 alternative quotes to demonstrate that. When the installations manager is here on Friday, I'm going to ask him to justify that quote. He won't be able to.

I've also just re-read the terms and it says the work should be completed within a reasonable timeframe. I'm wondering if I can get out of the contract on this basis? Ideally I just want them to say they no longer want to do it and return my deposit. I'll have wasted 6m with them but I'd feel a heck of a lot better about it. As the pp has said, the relationship has soured immensely over the past week... and that's before any work has been undertaken!

Some really good points and advice on here... thanks all.

I think you definitely have grounds to cancel the contract based on them not keeping to a reasonable timeframe. They've had your money since November and despite repeated attempts they haven't agreed a start date. You might have a fight for your deposit, as they're going to claim they've spent it. But they need to prove that with an itemised invoice. Get advice from the Federation of Master Builders.