To think colleagues shouldn’t have to be this ‘caring’?

[CinnnemonBeauty]

My work place goes on about being a caring place to work - we don’t have office wear - wear what we want - we are trusted to book our own holidays - we are offered the flex of homeworking after a year - we do charity days - fund raisers - we get an all expenses paid Xmas party.

However recently a colleague of mine needed to miss an evening event - not in her contractual hours - the reason being she is starting IVF and it was a crucial appointment that day - her manager said no - that she wasn’t in her actual appointment at the time and the needs of the business means she needs to attend the event - in the end another colleague said she would cover for her so she wouldn’t have to come.

I am not based nearby so I couldn’t help - I think it was amazing of the colleague who did step up to help her other colleague but as a caring organisation we shouldn’t be forcing people to work outside their hours (it does happen though and we all do it). I just feel bad for my colleague who is having IVF it will be a tough journey and I don’t think other colleagues like us should have to step up to help her out - because the company should help her - it’s great we want to help we do but I just guess my AIBU is should colleagues be this caring? Because if we do then it means the company gets a win win - but we are putting ourselves out of course for our colleagues/friends but we shouldn’t have to!

Hope that makes sense.

I work for a caring cut throat company too.

It take the caring with a pinch of salt

But they have in some respects been amazing.
Other ways they want their pound of flesh

I’d be interested to know what the crucial appointment was having gone through Ivf. I can think of a few. But if it was one for just the egg collection or implantation, that would be barbaric.

@daisypond Which is why I asked if I was missing something? Could she not come back to work or just not want to? The OP seems to suggest she does not want to which is different.

I believe it was very crucial. Also the events we do are probably planned weeks not months in advance.

The bottom line is - we don’t get TOIL. We have all signed a WTD waiver - it is expected in our industry to attend networking / marketing events - we therefore increase our client base. In reality most of the time enough of us attend that one less company attendee doesn’t mean we miss out. We usually have someone who will collect data for us and then we can contact attendees afterwards and follow up.

In the grand scheme this employee is a high performer - she asked not to attend this one event. The company holds it out to be caring - yes the manager should have stepped up.

I think it's two different things. Clearly the 'caring' strapline is just that, but most employees welcome the flexibility and being treated like a grown up. For more senior/professional roles, there is always an expectation that you work outside 9-5. So if you have to travel to see clients or internal customers, you may well have to stay overnight, etc.

In terms of that one scenario - I think any decent manager would bend over backwards to manage without that employee. I suppose it could be tricky if very few people can take over her role - but assuming people can, then the manage should have asked around others (you, the one who did step up, anyone else?). And only if they really couldn't go ahead, and the business really couldn't manage without her, then explore it further.

And it all depends on how senior and well paid she is, and the more you are, the more you need to be flexible for your company. You say she wasn't in the actual appointment, so do you mean it was earlier in the day? There are lots of variables here (and I've been through IVF so not unsympathetic.....).

I also work 4 days. My boss isn’t here on my non working day this week - he’s not said someone will cover for me. He usually handles my matters on my NWD. He just said ‘don’t book anything in my diary I’m not here on Friday’ I have something important that needs follow up - so I need to do it myself on my NWD. We put ourselves out a lot

Timing can be awkward too. It takes me an hour to get to hospital from home, then an hour back. After appointment - however long that takes, can be an unknown quantity - I would need to set off to work. Hour and a half to get to work. Then an hour and a half back. An appointment takes virtually a whole day. I’m protected under the equality act. I’d do more if I could.

Goodwill has to work both ways. Flexibility shouldn’t just benefit the employee.

@daisypond I have hospital appointments as well. We get travel time from home over and above what it takes to travel to work. So if it takes an hour to travel to the hospital but half an hour to work, we get half an hour travel. And travel home from work is obviously in our own time.

Depending on appointment, I did go back to work after most appointments. Not when I was having day surgery or investigations though.

The company can do the talk, but aren't compared to walk the walk. What do your contracts say about overtime, it should be voluntary.
They can't make you work extra hours see your union or ACAS.

It says in her contract she has to do these events.

Sorry but I think that YABU

Your employer is offering a range of benefits in addition to salary. You have a contract which states that out of hours work is required.

All the employer is requiring is that you do what you are paid for. And agreeing or not to time off including from out of hours events is to meet business needs.

Quid pro quo.

So on the occasion you are having crucial IVF treatment - then you should have to do the event - even though you’ve always been at the events previously. What happened to humanity?

One of the core values of my last employer was Caring. Bollocks were they. I have just been terminated due to ill health. Mental health issues caused by them.not being caring despite me flagging an issue immediately.

Yes I think on the information presented yabu.

Some parts of IVF require sedative/anaesthetic and people cannot drive/have to rest afterwards. The clash between evening event/medical appointment should be treated the same as any other. If employee needs xx hours for medical treatment, they get the same treatment whatever time of day it is.

If I had a hospital appointment in the morning, but was told I couldn't drive, and would need to rest for 24 hours, I wouldn't go into work that afternoon just because I'd left the hospital. If there was something really important happening at work that afternoon, it's up to the company to manage that. A manager doesn't get to override medical treatment because it's difficult for them to work around.

I say all this, then remember the time I was pressured into going back to work 5 days after an emergency appendectomy! Clearly I don't practicse what I preach.

But OP has not said that was the case.

I don't think OP knows if that was the case, just that the colleague REALLY didn't want to attend. If medical advice is to rest and not work, then work has to accept that.

It's just not a great business model to drain employees to the point where life events are being impacted negatively. You don't get the best from them when they feel like that. If it's a business that benefits from long-term commitment from employees, then it is a good business decision to allow for medical treatment (within reason, of course, but this is one evening from an otherwise committed employee). Low morale and high turnover don't benefit many businesses. There should be clear guidelines on how to allow for medical requirements, and the manager should stick to them instead of trying to guilt-trip people into submission. That's unprofessional.

Personally, I'm not much into "caring" companies - have a sensible contract that provides the working environment that best supports the business and stick to it. Keep emotion out of it, and be clear about expectations, including allowance for medical/personal events.

Is the company Virgin by any chance? I've heard that they have really unique ways of working, such as being trusted to book their own holidays and to take as many as they feel they deserve (although I'm not sure that can be true).

I'm not sure what to make of this to be honest. Company policy aside it just sounds a bit heartless of the manager. Does the manager know the full details of why she can't attend?

As others have said it's give and take most companies like this quite happy to give the benefits you mention but it's a 2 way they want the same back.

Manager knew. Responses have been mixed really.

We don’t get as much holiday as we want - just get to book when we want it - some people though are selfish and don’t think of the consequences.

Not Virgin - not that big.

I think the company talks the talk - but deep down you do feel they don’t really care. My heart went out to this employee she was made to feel bad - That’s how it got round to so many of us that it happened - kind of the person picking up for her - we have to stick together but our personal lives suffer

yourestandingonmyneck quite a few companies do that. You still have to book them but there's no maximum number of days. I can see how it would work well but I can also see how it's a disaster

It depends, but if you have a job which requires out of hours working (mine does) eg meetings, dinners, networking events etc it is part of your job then work have every right to need cover

So, colleague has a work commitment - an evening ebpvent which is part of her contract.

Colleague is also having IVF and has an appointment early that day.

Options surely are

• go to both
• change IVF appointment
• ask other colleague to cover work event if possible

What is the relevance of it being a 'caring' company? The work (contracted work) still needs done

*event