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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think colleagues shouldn’t have to be this ‘caring’?

76 replies

CinnnemonBeauty · 26/02/2020 15:03

My work place goes on about being a caring place to work - we don’t have office wear - wear what we want - we are trusted to book our own holidays - we are offered the flex of homeworking after a year - we do charity days - fund raisers - we get an all expenses paid Xmas party.

However recently a colleague of mine needed to miss an evening event - not in her contractual hours - the reason being she is starting IVF and it was a crucial appointment that day - her manager said no - that she wasn’t in her actual appointment at the time and the needs of the business means she needs to attend the event - in the end another colleague said she would cover for her so she wouldn’t have to come.

I am not based nearby so I couldn’t help - I think it was amazing of the colleague who did step up to help her other colleague but as a caring organisation we shouldn’t be forcing people to work outside their hours (it does happen though and we all do it). I just feel bad for my colleague who is having IVF it will be a tough journey and I don’t think other colleagues like us should have to step up to help her out - because the company should help her - it’s great we want to help we do but I just guess my AIBU is should colleagues be this caring? Because if we do then it means the company gets a win win - but we are putting ourselves out of course for our colleagues/friends but we shouldn’t have to!

Hope that makes sense.

OP posts:

opticaldelusion · 26/02/2020 17:47

Your company's not caring and your friend needs better boundaries.

Original poster

CinnnemonBeauty · 26/02/2020 17:49

Yes of course we know it’s part of our job to work outside contracted hours at these events but this poor woman was going to a critical IVF appointment that day - she really didn’t want to come to the evening event. We do a lot of events she has done plenty and supported the company.

It was the attitude of the manager - just really they pretend they give a shit but they don’t.

OP posts:

opticaldelusion · 26/02/2020 17:50

Also just because a contract says something doesn't make it enforceable. No industry can stipulate that you're expected to always be available outside of your contracted hours. They're essentially saying you work for them 24/7 which is clearly bollocks and wouldn't hold up at tribunal.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:06

So it is contracted hours, just not in her regular hours.
I think in that case it is fair enough she either attends or a colleague covers. I really don't see the issue with this at all.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:07

Why can't she come after her appointment? Am I missing something?

FabbyChix · 26/02/2020 18:08

There is nothing wrong with anyone being caring it don’t cost nothing surely it’s just human decency and I rarely see that anywhere

Jaxhog · 26/02/2020 18:09

'Caring' goes both ways. I've always worked for organizations that expect out of hours work to get things done. But NOT to attend an evening event out of hours, and especially not when she has a very good reason not to go.

StealthPolarBear · 26/02/2020 18:13

"janemaster

So it is contracted hours, just not in her regular hours.
I think in that case it is fair enough she either attends or a colleague covers. I really don't see the issue with this at all."
It's completely fair enough. But it doesn't quite fit with the caring ethos and the work life balance.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:13

@opticaldelusion Lots of workplaces give you advance notice of big events you have to attend, and unless there are major reasons why not, they expect you to attend. That is not unusual.

eaglejulesk · 26/02/2020 18:15

Because all the talk of being a caring company is just that: talk. All they care about is profit. ‘Caring’ goes out of the window when there are redundancies, restructures whatever.

This. Exactly what happened at the business I used to work for - and yet I read an article in their newsletter just yesterday about "looking after staff". Easy to say .........

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:15

@StealthPolarBear If it is in her contract, then it will be an integral part of the job. In that case someone needs to do it. Its not like an optional extra that a manager has just dreamed up.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:19

No business cares about their staff first. They do not exist to benefit staff. But there is a big difference between places that try to be fair to staff and those who don't give a shit. Believe me after you have worked at one that does not give a shit, you can see the difference very clearly.

Banya400 · 26/02/2020 18:24

Surely one colleague is doing a favour for another colleague. This sounds really normal and reasonable if it is possible.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:25

OP I am trying to understand, what do you think the business should have done? Cancel the event?

StealthPolarBear · 26/02/2020 18:29

Ime work events outside of contracted hours are subject to negotiation and a bit of give and take. If I never did any travelling I'd not get the job done. But I can say I'll struggle to do next Tuesday, can we come up with another plan?

KickAssAngel · 26/02/2020 18:29

It sounds like the company is willing to be 'flexible' in things that actually help/encourage you to be at work & events, and therefore more bought into company culture. But that's where it ends. If it really is obligatory to attend certain events then that should be in contracts, with dates known enough in advance that employees can plan around them.

Your colleague was absolutely right, btw. When doing fertility treatment there really are days when you have to do things within a 2 hour window, or you've wasted the entire cycle (and about 5,000 pounds). No amount of Christmas parties and wearing jeans is more important than that. Attending the event could quite literally have been jeopardising her child's chance of survival. Would you tell a newly pregnant woman that she had to attend, even though it could cause a miscarriage? I had times when there was a foetus, and I HAD to be at the clinic at an exact time. It's hugely emotional, with life-changing consequences. The company should not be forcing her to attend. IF they really NEED someone there, then the manager steps up, or someone has it in their contract to do that.

daisypond · 26/02/2020 18:30

It’s all lip service. I work for a company that is always sending out stuff about mental health, green this and that, but it’s a ruthless company. If you don’t hit your targets, you’re sacked. A teacher friend was similarly fooled when she thought her school actually cared about her mental health with, when they were just lining her up in the firing line.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:35

@StealthPolarBear It does depend on the notice given. Where I have worked though events like this are planned well in advance, I mean months, not next week.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:37

@KickAssAngel It is in her contract that she has to attend events. We do not know how much notice has been given. The manager is letting her go to IVF appointment but said she could come into work afterwards. She did not want to, so colleague said they would cover.

KickAssAngel · 26/02/2020 18:41

So what do the contracts say about medical appointments? IVF really is not flexible. The company can hardly have a policy that means it's impossible for women to have IVF treatment, that's discrimination. If someone had a grumbling appendix and were told they had to go for surgery on x date, what would the company do? People get sick, or go to funerals etc. The company needs to have plans in place to deal with that. If their only plan is "pressure someone else to do extra for no TOIL or pay" then it's not a great long-term business plan.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:52

The company is giving her time off for the appointment. They had just asked her to come back to work afterwards. OP thinks that is uncaring.

janemaster · 26/02/2020 18:54

And how do you know colleague who is covering is not getting paid or TOIL for it?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 26/02/2020 18:54

They're essentially saying you work for them 24/7

I wouldn't want to assume this without seeing the actual contract, but it clearly involves some flexibility around covering events, and the staff have worked it out by one of them covering another

Not too sure what the exact problem is here, TBH ...

GodwinsRulebook · 26/02/2020 18:57

However recently a colleague of mine needed to miss an evening event

As the event related to your company's business and your colleague's work responsibilities, even if outside normal working hours (ie 9-5) then normally she should do it.

If she couldn't, then it's pretty normal (in my profession at any rate) to cover for a colleague who's unable to do something because of a medical or personal emergency. For routine stuff (childcare, having a life etc) we generally have rotas for doing out of hours stuff ours is usually Saturday Open Days (university) so it's fair.

What if your manager had said (as they should have): "Fine. I understand. You can have a break for this event. I'll find cover." Then one of your colleagues would have had to cover anyway. And a good manager would ensure that this is evened out so your IVF colleague did an extra cover for the other colleague at some point.

In the situation you describe, I'd expect another team member to step in, and then to have that favour returned when the colleague covering needed a break or had another immoveable life event.

This is what working as a team involves.

Of course, if one colleague continually requires others to cover them (ie taking the piss), then a manager needs to step in (see above re rotas).

daisypond · 26/02/2020 18:59

The company is giving her time off for the appointment. They had just asked her to come back to work afterwards. OP thinks that is uncaring.
You cannot do that after lots of appointments. Because you’ve had surgery, or are in pain, or are told to rest, etc. I have lots of appointments at the moment and am unable to go back to work after most of them.

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