To think Nursing is one of the hardest degrees?

[UndertheCedartree]

I did a nursing degree as a 2nd degree as a mature student. I actually felt sorry for the 18 year olds starting it as they didn't get the usual Uni experience. No Freshers - as we'd already started a few weeks before and were in back to back lectures/classes. Social life was limited due to work load and placements with early starts and long hours.

I found it very stressful. Long hours in Uni due to hours needed to pass the professional qualification. Half the time spent working full time while having to write assignments and study for exams. Also the OSCEs (practical exam) and VIVAs (oral exam) that were so different to anything I'd done before.

So AIBU than Nursing is one of the hardest degrees?

some adult nurses I've encountered just dont seem to care about mental health... thankfully not all though.

Sadly, I agree with you. I myself have experienced this attitude from nurses in the past in relation to MH problems I had, and also with my DM when she was in hospital with a physical problem (she had schizoaffective disorder and frequent psychosis)- some of the nurses actually laughed at her, as a result she refused all medical help after this (which actually led to her death not long after I started my degree) so this is an issue close to my heart. It is the same with autism - there is little awareness from many nurses on how to care for patients with autism/ LD's on general wards. But in 3 years the only MH/ LD or ASD training we got was a week self study workbook that covered sod all tbh. I actually wanted to do my dissertation on the lack of MH training for adult nurses but there just isn't enough research on it. It is a topic that is coming up now though, and the RCN is calling for future adult nursing degree programmes to address this deficit. I hope it happens. We see so many patients currently on the acute wards who have self harmed/ taken overdoses and I really think those caring for them need to have as much knowledge on how to help them on a psychological as well as physical level.

But that doesn’t mean that all nurses should be conducting research

They're not. But they all need to understand the research process and how to assess it for merit though.

In this respect I think I'm a pretty good mentor. I tell all my students to never do weekends or nights unless they need to

Yep - you sound like an amazing mentor to me

I agree though re the learning opportunities - I find I get more time to speak with my mentor on nights/ weekends (if they're there..) but the learning opportunities are not as good as those during 'core hours', with perhaps the exception of A and E, ICU or similar.

My wife is doing her masters degree to be a nurse practitioner, she had to do her exams for the first 5 months early because of pregnancy, she pissed it, but then she is amazing at her job and is very interested in it

First year

Do the hospitals and university communicate well Tuesday, or does it feel like two separate roles?

It has felt very much like two separate roles really with little communication between the two, although my Uni has recently started to address this.

‘But that doesn’t mean that all nurses should be conducting research

They're not. But they all need to understand the research process and how to assess it for merit though.’

I didn’t think they were, but Cedar suggested so in her post, which is why I responded.

I still think that for people who simply need to be able to evaluate research, there is no need to complete a master’s level dissertation. It is often the bit of the qualification that causes people to come unstuck, and yet all sorts of jobs now seem to want a masters. A whole lot of really good people get held back at work because they don’t want to do one, and a whole load of other people attempt it and get mental health issues or otherwise struggle. It seems like an unnecessary thing to have to do in many cases.

Erm, surely any PhD done properly would be much harder? It sounds like you just mean time consuming.

The nursing degrees are changing all the time. Basics are becoming more akin to medical training than before. Specialist skills are becoming the norm. Gone are the days when the junior doc did all the ivs, antibiotics, feeds,fluids, bloods and chemo. Specialist nurses run their own clinics in every specialty and every thing has become a specialty. Students have to be able hit the ground running. You know the ones who will make it because they've done some research before the placement. It's the same for medicine. A lot of previous staff nurses duties are done by auxiliary nurses/healthcare assistants.

Argghh I posted before I finished. The role is constantly changing and it amazes me how they cope.

@Nameofchanges - yes, fair point.
@Doggybiccys - I wasn't suggesting the exams were a bad thing. I was just commenting that while I'd done lots of written exams in the past - I'd not done OSCEs or VIVAs and the VIVAs made me very nervous!!
@mumsneedwine - medical students are amazing too!

@Stompythedinosaur - good thing I wasn't saying that, eh?

Do you think there are things universities and hospitals could do to make the courses less stressful?
Half of all students on nursing courses tend to be mature students many with children. This is great as their experience is so important. It would helped me out mentally to have had more holidays matching with my children's school holidays. I would have a week at Christmas and a week in the Summer. It was hard having to put them in childcare so much.
As discussed I would have rather the degree be spread over 4 years as there is such an enormous amount to learn. Just trying to get through your thick A&P book is a lot! All the Science, Sociology, Psychology, Law & Ethics, Reflective writing, the Nursing process, Assessing using ABCDE etc etc - it is a lot of content. There should be more comeback if you get a poor mentor (trouble is there aren't enough mentors) as being unable to learn the in-depth requirements for each skill just pushes more pressure onto the next placement. I think a really good idea would be if once a week a 'teacher' based at the hospital would spend some time on the wards helping students learn their skills. It would help to balance out the working/learning a bit. I think having a study day during placement to be able to keep up on Uni work would help so much. On placement you usually come home with lots of notes to sort/read through, perhaps homework or reading from your mentor or notes from a lecture at the hospital. You are also trying to learn what you need to pass a skill. A bit of breathing space to complete your Uni work would have made a massive difference.

@FormerlyFrikadela01 - I have to say I learnt a lot on night shifts. Lots of 1:1 with my mentor and 1:1 with patients.
Haha @PointlessAddict - what a ridiculous post! I've never once said it was 'the hardest degree in the world'. I am having an interesting discussion on here. Shame you have to be so defensive - I couldn't care less if you think my degree was hard or not. Maybe you just want me to say 'it's ok, I'm sure your degree was hard too!' But as you say you are unable to talk about or compare degrees - so perhaps you'd have more useful things to say on another post?

Time consuming yes...incredibly so.
Academically challenging I'm not convinced.

I don't think id rank nursing amoung the harder courses to be completely honest. Its a practical degree with a massive amount of on the job training included in the academic year. There is a high gap accademically between nurses and Drs for example.

And I don't say that in a way to disparage nurses. Most of my family are nurses including my mother!

I did veterinary medicine at the same time my brother did, as a mature student,Human Medicine.

We both agree vet med was the worse of the two and the more challenging course to get through as students....and also that it had to be so because vets were released with minimal further specialist supervised training and back up after the 5 years in uni... while the medical Drs continue supervised training as interns etc for significantly longer.

Academically I would argue Vet was actually not as difficult as some of the other sciences degrees in the depth of theory been taught(my housemates did science and microbiology)
The vet course builds a solid foundation in practical applicable science for the first 2 and a half years as well as anatomy nutrition etc...then focuses the last 2 years of the more medicine and disease related training. Then sets it all down in a year of practical application and hands on supervised training.
It was the sheer volume and timeframe of lectures- 8am to 6pm for a lot of third year was the height of the grim times and level of content that was the issue that makes vet a hard course....
Plus the fact that vet students have to do compulsory ems-unpaid work placement of at least 26 weeks outside of university semesters..so in our own time and without pay...so working or having a life outside of vet was a challenge.

And despite all that...I still think there are harder uni courses then vet!
Engineering etc were also incredibly challenging courses with long hours if lectures and study.
Several of the in-depth science's and theoretical physics etc seem intense
Actuary and architecture are pretty high on the challenge list as well.

People underestimate the challenge of a lot of university degrees. There's plenty who aren't out getting sloshed lol.

@Missarad - everyone always says Y2 is hardest. Hats off to you having your daughter during the course. A few in my cohort had babies and I honestly don't know how they coped - that would have finished me off!!

@todayisnottuesday - I agree more mental health training for all fields. We did a mental health placement alongside a few lectures - it helped a lot but could have done with more. We did a small amount of child/LD/maternity health too but again could have done with more - it was a lot of study on your own but more practical and lectures would have been good. Why I think 4 years is needed!

I've taught nursing students so I know that their course material is nowhere near comparable to other biological science degrees in academic terms.

However, that's not to say that nursing - both as a student and once employed - isn't extremely tough both psychologically, and in terms of sheer volume of work.

@FormerlyFrikadela01 - the skills books are very Adult biased, I think.

My first year was joint Adult/Mental health. Which I think was good as so many Mental Health nurses are very poor on physical health and vice versa.

@Nameofchanges - there does appear to be a lack of communication between university and hospital/community services. Mentors often seemed very confused about our skills book and what was required from them. I have to say most of my mentors were fantastic but had a few bad ones. Night shifts on a ward were great to be able to go through the skills book but tended to be very busy in the community.

@Reginabambina - I mean time consumimg, yes - but much more. Stressfull, emotionally and mentally- taxing, physically draining, lack of sleep, a huge amount to learn in 3 years and yes, academically difficult too for many. (which does not mean the most difficult). Suddenly being responsible for people and if you make a mistake it can have far reaching consequences. It is the full packgage I am talking about.

@Zombiemum1946 - it is true - what many people think of the role of the nurse is more akin to the role of HCAs now. It is frightening sometimes to see the responsibility HCAs take on with very little training and of course poor pay. They work very hard and are an integral part of the team.

@Nameofchanges - I think the amount of research done by nurses is a bit skewed here. And yes, some of my cohort haven't done Masters but post-grad certificate. We have a Masters nursing degree here too - no idea how they learn enough in 2 years (I don't think they do). Some of my cohort are in teaching and research.