AIBU to ask ‘what would make you go vegan’?

[Bastetcat]

Tangentially inspired by another thread, I wonder if there are specific obstacles standing in the way of people choosing to go vegan, and if so what they are?

I tend to presume that if perfect, indistinguishable replicas for meat / dairy / eggs etc could be created then virtually everyone would go vegan, but I would be interested in finding out if that’s actually the case!

Nothing. I've watched Earthlings and the other programme about animals but it hasn't turned me vegetarian or vegan. I did feel emotions... but let's face it, if the animals we eat were starving and we was all laying on the ground ready to be consumed, then they bloody well would gobble us (yuck.. disgustingly reminding me of the boars being let loose scene in the film Hannibal)

I tend to presume that if perfect, indistinguishable replicas for meat / dairy / eggs etc could be created then virtually everyone would go vegan,
Nope, because I don't want massive multinationals to have that much control over everyone's diet and expenditure. Besides, for years we chowed down transfats in the belief that they were fine, and now find that they aren't. So I wonder what crap will be fed to the human race in fake meats, only for everyone to throw up their hands in horror 20 or 30 years down the line when the health impacts become obvious. And if we've got rid of domesticated livestock by then, well, that would've a smart move, wouldn't it?

I have no issue at all with animals being raised humanely and slaughtered cleanly. I think the environmental impacts are often over-stated and like is not compared with like. For example, the inputs needed to produce a kilo of beef are compared unfavourably to the inputs needed to produce a kilo of rice, with no acknowledgement of the superior nutrition provided by the beef. For another example, the carbon emissions of beef raised on feedlots in the USA is not the same at all as the emissions of beef raised extensively on pasture in the UK.

If you have 20 minutes, this TED talk might just blow your brains regarding livestock and the environment:
www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change?language=en

And for anybody who has an hour to spare, this video is 100% worth your time:

I could never give up eggs. Poached eggs on toast is just my favourite thing to eat in the world. There's nothing vegan that compares.

@ElbasAbsentPenis I can completely understand that - I am lucky to have a really supportive partner who shares the mental load. It would be a lot harder without him.

Never. Nothing. But I've lived on (Beef and Sheep) farms all my life and I'm happy that the meat, dairy and eggs I consume is all good quality and high welfare. We don't eat meat every day but only so we can afford to eat good meat when we do.

I can’t move past the fact that the cows are artificially inseminated and then their calves removed within 24 hours of birth (and the males slaughtered for veal)

Having seen cows being artificially inseminated in real life I can guarantee that they don't even seem to notice it's happening. They certainly aren't in any pain from it. The reason they artificially inseminate is so they can use 'sexed semen' to vastly reduce the number of male born dairy calves. Male dairy calves do now have a commercial beef value though (so aren't being shot at birth or into the veal market), they are leaner than traditional beef animals and therefore now very much wanted by consumers wanting cheap and leaner cuts of meat in the supermarket.

If they don't use sexed semen it's usually because they are using a 'beef bull' which means all the offspring (male or female) are destined for the meat industry when they are about 2 years old.

Go to most dairy farms in the UK and you will find happy cows walking themselves into the milking parlour because they get tasty food while they are in there. Anyone who works with cattle will tell you it is extremely difficult to make a cow do something it doesn't want to do, especially twice a day 7 days a week. Dairy Cows like being milked.

You will usually also find straw pens of calves running around not giving a shiny shit that they are being fed milk from buckets rather than their mums.

I'm not going to argue that the dairy industry is perfect because it isn't. I could also make the same statement about the fruit and veg industry which has a very high animal death rate associated with it to. But I think there is a shocking amount of disinformation out there that needs to be more robustly challenged.

It does make me a bit when vegans bang on about calves etc but happily tuck into a whole host of unethically grown imported vegetables where every living creature for miles around will have been obliterated to allow them to be grown.

Nothing. Bollocks to all this vegan processed crap. Fair play to those who genuinely eat plant foot that god made not man made. But the rest of it is just big companies winding you in!!

Dr Chatterjee did a cracking podcast with a bloke who is some world expert in food. The carbon footprint of a fake vegan burger is lower than a mass produced fast food burger. But a locally sourced sustainably reared beef burger is actually a carbon sink according to him.

And I beg to differ that the animals are reared cruelly. My grass fed beef cattle are pretty well looked after.

@Bastetcat Same 100%. It annoys me that some people get so angry with " all the preachy vegans", yet must meet tons of vegans that they don't actually know are vegan, as they don't mention it. Hence they only remember the vocal vegans!

It works both ways, I can be out socially, order some food. Someone notices it's not got meat. Immediately asks if I'm vegetarian, I say I'm vegan. They then start on the offensive, wanting a shouty debate, when I just want to eat my food in peace.

So happy your DP is supportive, mine is too. He's a chef and loves trying new food, since I went vegan he has been replacing his veggie options on the menu with vegan and just got a new head chef job a couple of weeks ago, where he made a vegan dish as his "mystery dish" in his interview. The managers (judges! 😆) loved his innovation and 'being on trend', he wasn't beinh trendy, he just enjoys creating new flavours!

I would only go vegan if I actually had to to kill, skin, gut and joint the animals I eat with my own hands. And milk the cow and make the butter and cheese myself.

As long as farmers, fishermen and dairy workers will do it for me, I won't change, though I will and have cut down how often I eat meat.

Absolutely nothing could make me go vegan.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman I think you’re right that there is a lot of misinformation about the environmental impact, although I also think there is a general scientific consensus that current worldwide beef and dairy consumption is unsustainable. But as you say, the feedlots of America are not the same as the pastures of the UK, and we have to be discerning about statistics.

It’s not healthy for everyone to be vegan. pregnant women, sick people, teenage girls, babies, growing children etc all need a diet full of variety not a strict diet that cuts out major food groups such as a vegan diet.

I need red meat or I get anaemic. There are two different types of iron, heme (animal sources) non-heme (plant sources). Humans do not absorb non-heme iron very well. I was vegetarian for 20 years and vegan for 2. I struggled with anaemia the whole time and it got worse when I became vegan. No amount of vitamins helped. If you read the back of vitamin packets it states that vitamins are NOT a replacement for a varied and healthy diet. Once I added red meat into my diet I finally stopped being anaemic and I feel like a new person after all that time.

Humans are omnivores, that is our natural diet. That’s what we thrive on.

Having said the above factory farming is awful and I do try to steer clear of animals that have lived that life.

@GetMeOffThisCycleOfMisery that’s so good to hear! I’m constantly amazed by the quality of vegan options in restaurants now - you see some amazing and innovative cooking.

Oysterbabe, have you ever tried your poached eggs on vegemite toast? It takes them to whole new level of deliciousness!

Nothing!

I love being vegan I occasionally have a meat substitute burger when out but mainly just plants.

I always used to say "I like cheese too much" too!

or to send the males for veal
They don't all go for veal. If off a beef bull, they'll probably be reared for beef.
With new sperm sexing technology, a dairy cow is less and less likely to carry a bull calf off a dairy bull.

Slaughter isn't nice, but I don't think that it's immoral if it's done with the minimum pain and stress to the animal. Having seen how animals die in nature, there are far worse fates than captive bolt stunning.

It would take the doctor telling me I would die if I ate meat/dairy, probably. I simply don't feel inspired to, at all.

Veganism is not on my agenda at all.
DS had allergies to milk, eggs and soya in infancy, so I did have to use a lot of vegan alternatives (obviously other than meat) and they were inferior to the ingredients they replaced. They don't adequately replace eggs in baking, or cheese. I had to shop across 4 different supermarkets, and my area is not good for anything other than mainstream supermarkets. I've realised I'm intolerant to soya so that would be restrictive. I do use oat milk due to a low tolerance of dairy, but thank goodness I can cope with modest amounts of cheese!

I'm not convinced about the environmental arguements as far as the UK is concerned. I live on the fringes of where arable land turns to pastoral land. Large parts of my county are financially viable for livestock only. They are good for biodiversity, for soils, for manure. Farmers would not waste their time caring for livestock if arable was more financially viable to them. There's not enough quality arable land in the world to be the default answer to all food and other issues such compostable plastics from organic sources. I think reducing imports/ air miles and buying more domestically produced food is more important than eliminating animal products.

I haven't killed an animal for food myself, but I have skinned and filleted some pheasants that were going spare after a shoot. While my DCs were hysterical at the sight of the pheasants hanging around like macabre puppets, they enjoyed eating them knowing what they were and where they'd come from. I've gutted spare fish that we were offered while camping too.

I love the umami taste and texture of meat and animal products. I don't often feel satisfied by vegetarian food (although I did eat vegetarian for a month in India, but ate a lot of paneer). I'm not a great vegetable lover and would find it hard to eat a well balanced, varied, satisfying vegan diet. Not something I'd volunteer for at all.

I like meat, have no issue slaughtering animals for food. I'm adapted to eat meat. I don't think that there is anything that could convince me.

@turnandfacethenamechange I said that for years! Then stopped eating it and didn’t even notice that I wasn’t missing it. Now I find I appreciate all these other flavours that were previously drowned out by cheese (like the freshness of a tomato and basil pasta).

I used to feel a bit peeved when people go, "I just love cheese too much!"and I'm like excuse me are you questioning my former devotion to cheese?!! I used to eat that shit straight off the block! It had teethmarks!

For me, killing an animal is a fundamentally cruel act.

Good for you.

I find a well cared for animal raised in good conditions and well nurtured quite acceptable to eat.

I’m not going to eat fake meat because “I like the taste of meat but think the whole idea of raising it to slaughter disgusting”.

I find it too restrictive. The need to have "Vegan bacon sausages and chicken nuggets" ? Enough said.
Also, I like eating out, we have regular family and friends get togethers that usually involves food. It be impossible not to eat animal products...
On the flip side, my day to day diet involves simple whole foods cooked from scratch, often no meat in sight. By accident, I am actually cooking regular vegetarian and vegan main meals. But that's because we have a lot of chick peas, lentils and all sorts of beans - many recipes are vegan. Bonus is: they are cheap in comparison and I am able to buy organic/ fair trade stuff. Simply impossible with meat or highly processed food products.

@turnandfacethenamechange I relate to that so much my favourite meal used to just be 6 varieties of cheese and a baguette with Normandy butter. But you really don’t crave it once you aren’t eating it any more!

@HenHarrier that’s fine. I was just trying to provide my response to your questions.