AIBU to ask ‘what would make you go vegan’?

[Bastetcat]

Tangentially inspired by another thread, I wonder if there are specific obstacles standing in the way of people choosing to go vegan, and if so what they are?

I tend to presume that if perfect, indistinguishable replicas for meat / dairy / eggs etc could be created then virtually everyone would go vegan, but I would be interested in finding out if that’s actually the case!

I don’t believe that long term a vegan diet is healthful. There are certain micronutrients that you cannot obtain without supplements and I don’t think supplements are the right way ahead

Neither do I think that processed vegan food is a good idea not better for the environment. It seems largely soya based and wrapped in plastics.

I find the whole vegan obsession cult like.

I eat a mainly plant based diet, I’m dairy free but eat local eggs, local organic meat twice a week and fish once a week. I believe my environmental impact is probably far lower than most

I started odd veggie...but I tried oat milk and it was fine so I just swapped. I dont eat cheese as dieting anyway so just gave it up! I do miss eggs.

abortionofchips

You sound much the same as me. I thought when I went vegan I'd be constantly missing/craving things but while I do occasionally remember the pleasant taste of something I used to eat I can't unsee what made me do it in the first place. So it's less like the craving you might being on a diet and more like remembering something you used to eat but knowing if you eat it you'll be horribly sick....if that makes any sort of sense! Like you couldn't enjoy it knowing any more even if the taste is still good.

honestly a bit of research at the start was all it took, not that much work and effort
You honestly underestimate how much some loathe cooking
Fast and easy for me. No blitz this, soak for 24 hours. add xyz123 herbs and spices for flavour

Yes but you need extra work and effort to eat a healthy balanced diet as an omnivore as well. Mash and sausages is not a healthy balanced diet either. What was the number, I think around only 20% of people in the UK eat their recommended fruit and vegetables?

Mash and sausage is better than a vegan who eats potato and plain rice. Its much easier to eat a lazy omnivore diet and be ok in general.
The number is similar in Aus i think

Health. I tried it for 2 months to see if it would improve inflammation and it didn't. So I wouldn't try again.

The only upside is I get to explain this to preachy vegans who tell me it will cure every ill and it's my fault I'm ill because I'm not a vegan.

Op., it wouldn't be my choice, but you've restored my faith in so far as you sound like a very normal person, like I thought most Vegans would be, but I think I've only met the extreme unfortunately.

I don't eat red meat and have gone off fish recently so only really have fish and chips occasionally. But I am quite a fussy eater and if I relied on veggie food, never mind vegan, there would be nothing on the menu I can eat so I need to eat chicken or turkey.

I don't like goat's cheese, which often finds itself into veggie dishes so that makes life more difficult. Actually I used to eat goats cheese quite happily but now it just seems to taste - well - of goat.

But while I am typing this I am eating some home made soup which is effectively vegan, so it's certainly not difficult to have more vegan meals, and I don't like cooking much but vegetable soup is dead easy.

I also like wool jumpers

Do vegans really not wear wool? That's crazy. Cotton is an eco-sin and never mind all the man-made fibres with their microplastics.

I think my issue with veganism is that in so many cases, it really isn't better for the planet. Cutting down on drinking and eating milk and dairy products makes sense due to the methane emissions from cows. But eating veg flown in from the other side of the world is never going to be good.

I've been vegetarian since childhood and my DC have been veggie since birth (obviously now they are a little older they are free to choose, but are so far more veggie-vigilante than me). For environmental and ethical reasons.

I might consider going vegan for all of us if I could be convinced that a vegan diet could include adequate levels of all essential nutrients, and also if the environmental impact was less than that of being vegetarian.

So much vegan food is highly processed, over-packaged and transported huge distances. I know it's possible to avoid these foods, but not entirely practical for a busy family, and slightly fussy children.

Humans evolved to be omnivorous and as such there are certain nutrients that are essential to health that it's impossible to get from plant sources. Vitamin B12 is one of these. From what I understand all vegans need to supplement B12 or risk life-changing effects. B12 (in a form we can use) comes only from animal products (meat, fish, dairy, eggs). B12 is formed in soil by microbes, so there's some evidence that eating dirty vegetables is an option! The B12 in animal products comes from grazing animals consuming soil with their food.

So to be a healthy vegan I would have to take B12 tablets, and it just wouldn't feel like a healthy diet.

Then there's making sure we consume the full range of protein types needed, which is harder than it sounds on a vegan diet. And iron.

In an ideal world chickens, cows, sheep, goats etc. would all be properly and ethically kept and I would continue eating dairy and eggs.

Fussy eater.
Don’t really like vegetables - apart from peas, cauliflower and onions. Hate beans/lentils/legumes - bleugh.
Love cheese.

@cologne4711 I think that’s a valid point. I personally don’t buy new wool because I’ve seen such distressing videos of sheep shearing (I wear wool I’ve had since before I went vegan) but I think a lot of vegans happily buy vegan alternatives without considering whether they are actually worse for the environment. For some vegans that wouldn’t matter because the environment is a secondary issue to animal cruelty, but it’s something I care about.

I’ve heard good things about new fabrics made of eucalyptus and cactus leather, so I’m going to start looking into that.

I might consider going vegan for all of us if I could be convinced that a vegan diet could include adequate levels of all essential nutrients, and also if the environmental impact was less than that of being vegetarian.

A vegan diet can be nutritionally complete for any age and definitely has a lower environmental impact than a vegetarian diet. Even just cutting out dairy would significantly reduce the environmental impact of what you eat.

So much vegan food is highly processed, over-packaged and transported huge distances. I know it's possible to avoid these foods, but not entirely practical for a busy family, and slightly fussy children.

This is as true of omnivorous diets. Vegan alternatives to processed foods are themselves generally processed, but I see that as a like for like replacement. Vegan meats are processed, but entirely avoidable.

Humans evolved to be omnivorous and as such there are certain nutrients that are essential to health that it's impossible to get from plant sources. Vitamin B12 is one of these. From what I understand all vegans need to supplement B12 or risk life-changing effects. B12 (in a form we can use) comes only from animal products (meat, fish, dairy, eggs). B12 is formed in soil by microbes, so there's some evidence that eating dirty vegetables is an option! The B12 in animal products comes from grazing animals consuming soil with their food.

These days farm animals get their B12 from supplements, not from grazing the soil. So if you take a supplement instead of eating a product from an animal which has been fed a supplement, there is little difference in my view.

So to be a healthy vegan I would have to take B12 tablets, and it just wouldn't feel like a healthy diet.

Just out of interest, why is this? I’m never really sure why people are opposed to supplements. We take folic acid supplements during pregnancy etc and it just doesn’t seem to be an issue, but when it’s b12 people get anxious about it even though it’s fed to animals as a supplement anyway.

Then there's making sure we consume the full range of protein types needed, which is harder than it sounds on a vegan diet. And iron.

This is a valid point. Once you’ve learned your way around vegan protein and iron sources it’s easy but it does take some initial learning / getting used to.

I think my issue with veganism is that in so many cases, it really isn't better for the planet. Cutting down on drinking and eating milk and dairy products makes sense due to the methane emissions from cows. But eating veg flown in from the other side of the world is never going to be good.

There’s a really good graph upthread showing that transport generally only accounts for a tiny proportion of overall GHG emissions for food. Very little food is flown - only things with a short shelf life which are grown abroad, mostly berries. It certainly isn’t only vegans who eat berries. The examples people always point to when discussing the environmental impact of veganism (nuts and avocados) are shipped not flown, and therefore have relatively low environmental transport costs.

Essentially, what you eat (I.e. if your diet includes meat and dairy) has significantly more impact on the environmental impact of your diet than where your food comes from.

I personally don’t buy new wool because I’ve seen such distressing videos of sheep shearing What videos?

I have osteoporosis and need to eat the right diet for it (which isn’t vegan). I’m sure someone will be along to tell me that a certain bean or nut has as much calcium as a piece of cheese!

These days farm animals get their B12 from supplements, not from grazing the soil. So if you take a supplement instead of eating a product from an animal which has been fed a supplement, there is little difference in my view.

I commented on this earlier. Supplements are given to corn-fed, feedlot-reared animals in the US. Supplements are not necessary for cattle which eat a majority grass diet, which is most of the UK. Being ruminants, they have the gut microbes to produce B12, which we then get by eating them. So very different to supplementing.

I personally don’t buy new wool because I’ve seen such distressing videos of sheep shearing

Videos of unsheared sheep shuffering from fly strike would be pretty bloody distressing too, I'd imagine.

I don't eat lots and lots of meat - I think we've had it once in the past 5 days - and aim to eat higher welfare meat and dairy. But like others I'm not convinced eating air-imported and/or highly processed plant-based foods is the best thing for the environment.

And to go vegan successfully I'd probably need the kids to move out and a personal chef to move in, as while I'm sure a properly planned vegan diet can be delicious, varied, and nutritionally sound, given the range of likes and dislikes in my family coupled with time constraints we'd be eating from quite a narrow range of meals, and I would be concerned about nutritional balance.

@maxnormal

UK animals are also supplemented with B12 (there are likely exceptions where the beef is organic and soil microbes have been preserved but this is not the general rule).

I don't eat lots and lots of meat - I think we've had it once in the past 5 days - and aim to eat higher welfare meat and dairy. But like others I'm not convinced eating air-imported and/or highly processed plant-based foods is the best thing for the environment

Eating beef and dairy has a far, far greater environmental impact than eating imported foods. Even if you literally never ate anything that wasn’t produced in Britain and a vegan ate exclusively imported fruit and veg, the environmental impact of your diet would still be significantly greater than that of the vegan if you were still consuming beef and dairy.

These days farm animals get their B12 from supplements, not from grazing the soil.

Erm, ruminants don't get B12 from "grazing the soil". B12 is produced by their gut bacteria.

Videos of unsheared sheep shuffering from fly strike would be pretty bloody distressing too, I'd imagine.

I don’t doubt it. We are in a horrible catch 22 where we have bred sheep to have thicker and thicker fleeces, and now they need our intervention for their wellbeing. But that intervention is often cruel and harmful. I guess the ideal situation would be for demand for wool and lamb to decrease to the point where we either stop breeding the sheep in the first place, or only in small numbers.

UK animals are also supplemented with B12

Do you have a source for that? My understanding is it's largely just cobalt supplementation, in England and Wales, as the soils there are deficient.

Having seen sheep-shearing first-hand, I can't say I found it particularly cruel.

@HenHarrier yes, you’re right. Cows get cobalt from grazing on organic soil or from supplements, which enables them to synthesise B12.

It’s worth noting that the majority of people who eat an omnivorous diet are also b12 deficient. Most people would benefit from taking a b12 supplement!