To despair at the growing level of racism and xenophobia in this country?

[AlexaShutUp]

I have just been told by the security guard at my local shop that the coronavirus is a "good thing" because it will stop people from traveling and it will therefore "keep them foreigners out". I am ashamed to say that I couldn't think of a good response quickly enough, and just muttered something disapproving but pretty incoherent back to him. Have so many much better responses going round in my head now, and I am annoyed that I didn't challenge him in a more articulate manner.

I know that there have always been racists and xenophobes, but I'm sure that there was a time when such hideous views would not have been expressed to a stranger in public. Over the last few years, it seems that there have been more and more comments of this nature, and it makes me so sad to see the ignorant, unwelcoming little nation we have become.

What sort of fuckwit thinks that a global pandemic is good news? And what sort of society makes people think it's ok to voice such opinions?

I'm not saying it's wrong to point out that other countries are more racist (however that is measured) but people often say it in response to an account of racism in the UK in a dismissive way. Like the fact that other countries are worse means we shouldn't worry about racism here. Many of us have noticed an increase in xenophobia in the last few years and are worried about it. I'm pleased the UK is more tolerant than other countries and happy for this to be mentioned but it shouldn't be used to dismiss genuine fears about the rise of racism here.

I think it’s very concerning the increase in how many are being vocal with their racist opinions. I do believe that some that supported us leaving the EU have stirred things up and has encouraged people to be vocal but the issue has always been there.

Do I think it worse in other parts of Europe well from people I know their experience absolutely (and we only need to see how the far right has received so many votes) and I don’t personally believe things are back to how they were in the 70’s from my own families experience racism was part of everyday life it was at times extremely aggressive and there was no reporting and little calling out this behaviour thankfully we have progressed but that doesn’t mean we should get ignore the issue

Governments have buried their heads in the sand for too long the issue was increasing (here and in Europe) but unfortunately it’s got to the point now where it is very difficult to have a conversation about immigration. If you are not in complete favour of an open door policy you are often labelled as racist. High levels of immigration will benefit some more than others will impact the lives of some more than others. It’s very easy to sit in your nice house in a nice mc area where immigration hasn’t impacted you at all apart from having the choice of cheap labour and a variety of different foods to only see the benefits. When your schools are not so over subscribed, when your GP waiting lists are not impacted, when you area has not changed particularly, when your jobs are not been undercut by cheaper labour there is no issue for you.

All this has been ignored or and now we are where we are (not surprised at all we voted to leave the writing was on the wall but I am disappointed) we can’t keep ignoring that immigration can be both positive and negative for some

I don’t get the problem with the points system. Most countries do it. Australia and New Zealand do it and we don’t call them a bunch of racists. It’s just sensible.

I do have a bit of prob when people go on about empire. Not saying the scars of empire don,t linger but they conveniently forget about the French, Dutch Austrohungarian, Ottaman, Russian Japenease, I could go. So it is certainly not peculiar to Britain.

'm not saying it's wrong to point out that other countries are more racist (however that is measured) but people often say it in response to an account of racism in the UK in a dismissive way. Like the fact that other countries are worse means we shouldn't worry about racism here. Many of us have noticed an increase in xenophobia in the last few years and are worried about it. I'm pleased the UK is more tolerant than other countries and happy for this to be mentioned but it shouldn't be used to dismiss genuine fears about the rise of racism here.

Sure. My problem is that when this sort of logic is deployed by the right, it's considered ignorance. When it's deployed by the left, it's.... thoughtful?

A good example of this inconsistency is welfare fraud, and it's worth noting that certain kinds of welfare abuse cannot be observed/measured in the way that racism vs tolerance can (it's in the intent of the recipient) but any mention will get you a slap on the hand from the left just the same.

I lived in Suffolk three years ago. My children’s school was oversubscribed, my G.P. surgery had problems. It was absolutely nothing to do with immigration. Everything to do with constant underfunding.

@olivehater I have no issue with a points-based system, but the only being implemented eliminates any kind of immigration for the less fortunate. People who have the potential to train as doctors, nurses, and teachers (all of which are in need) will be turned away for not having the right experience and monetary status. There is no room for allowing upward mobility. Most people who have comfortable lives in their home countries as doctors, nurses, and teachers are less likely to look to immigrate to the UK as they are established. Young 20-somethings who have yet to qualify shouldn't be turned away when they could be a great addition to the UK.

@olivehater I have no issue with a points-based system, but the only being implemented eliminates any kind of immigration for the less fortunate. People who have the potential to train as doctors, nurses, and teachers (all of which are in need) will be turned away for not having the right experience and monetary status. There is no room for allowing upward mobility. Most people who have comfortable lives in their home countries as doctors, nurses, and teachers are less likely to look to immigrate to the UK as they are established. Young 20-somethings who have yet to qualify shouldn't be turned away when they could be a great addition to the UK.

A nation's immigration policy is not intended to be a benevolent enterprise, it's to round out the gaps of its own workforce. It's not our job to train foreign workers.

Our social responsibility is discharged via asylum and foreign aid.

Best be letting the universities know that, programmable.

I know from my own experience my own families experience when my family came here where did they live the poorest of areas and of course they wanted to live where they knew people or people from same or similar background, yes houses were sublet, yes work was done cheaply cash in hand this is the life for many coming here or moving to another country (not all) and this impacts lives around them

The area very soon became very Asian it was a poor area anyway we were not mingling with the middle classes in the middle of Suffolk as there wasn’t opportunities there but there

I am not saying there isn’t cut backs but the constant denial of the impact on immigration in mainly the poorest in our society doesn’t help it has always impacted them first

Best be letting the universities know that, programmable.

What specifically would you like me to tell them, Gilead?

Since the Brexit referendum, DW has been called a 'Polish bitch' (or similar sentiment) several times. Prior to that, nothing (and she moved over here in 1995).

Make of that what you will.

The UK is just as racist as countries in the EU we are just smaller.
I find that some forms of racism here are deemed acceptable, whereas other races aren't.
A recent AIBU asked if the OP should accept the racism she receives and an astounding 40% said she should. This is acceptable racism apparently because she is Romany.
I'm in my 50's in whilst racism has always existed, the last time it was so overt was the 1960's with the No blacks, or Irish.
We live in scary times and if people can't see the rise in racism across Europe then they clearly don't want to. It's akin to the rise in Germany in the 1930's.

Devlesko, I saw that AIBU thread, it was unbelievable.

Moosebreath I think young people from abroad can train via our university system. They are then free to stay in the uk and apply for graduate job as I understand it. I vaguely remember hearing they time they are allowed to stay has been extended.

International University fees are simply not feasible for the vast majority of people. I studied for a year in the UK through a program at my University in Canada, which allowed me to pay Canadian fees through an exchange program, but to stay longer, it would have been extortionate. I wouldn't have qualified for any funding or loans as I am not British. This is going to severely restrict people coming into the country.

Gone will be the days of hard-working people coming to the UK and performing a minimum wage job whilst they earn their qualifications to work for the NHS. We will be losing a lot of talent because of this.

I think part of the reason that many feel enboldened is that for quite some time the Left and other interested parties have been calling, or reportedly calling incidents as racist, when there is greta doubt as to whether the issue is actually racist. Obviously there is RAcism, and obviously there have been instances of racism which must be called out. Perhaps there is a culpability on the part of some of the tabloid press is showing "look at this stupid person saying its racist but its not...."
These instances embolden the secuirty gaurd above, the father, the In Law as they get a perception that the definition of racism is in the hand of a sometimes an intolerent social justice warrior whom they see as wanting to upturn teh balance of power, and ultimatley feel "so what if what I think is called racism, I am not afraid of you (the Left) saying I am racist to shut me up - so be it."

I don't think it's worse. I'm in my 40's when i was a child I had a few people call me names for my nationality. I'm white but from south Europe. Maybe slightly darker. Yet I was bullied by a black girl who even told everyone at school I was an immigrant 🙄 all in primary. Even told I looked like a dirty Iranian when i came back from holiday all tanned I was around 11-12 for this one. Nowadays said girl goes to my church and is all sweet and nice to me. Does she even remember her nasty words to me in Primary? I have friends of all races and cultures. I definitely haven't experienced any xenophobia as an adult like when I was a child.

International University fees are simply not feasible for the vast majority of people. I studied for a year in the UK through a program at my University in Canada, which allowed me to pay Canadian fees through an exchange program, but to stay longer, it would have been extortionate. I wouldn't have qualified for any funding or loans as I am not British. This is going to severely restrict people coming into the country.

It's the job of the UK to educate its own population.

Where it educates non-UK populations at the cost of the UK taxpayer, it should fall under the foreign aid budget or similar. This can be big or small, but it should be transparent and not be hidden away in some other budget.

I doubt very much that the UK needs to search outside its borders for raw talent that can be trained up for the NHS on the UK's dime - we have our own smart young people here. The immigration points policy will certainly allow for any talent that fills an immediate need in the NHS.

I work for the nhs. The wages are artificially low in comparison to the cost of living, level of education/skill need to to the job and comparable jobs on the private market.
If you look at what a nurse for instance earns in the us or in Australia if is ridiculously low.
This is in part due to the ease with which we can employ from other countries. It is a big wage for a nurse from the Philippines for instances. They can afford to save up for a few years and then go and buy a house or whatever in their home country and live well. No such luck for our home grown British counterparts. As long as a large percentage of the nhs is propped up by foreign nationals wages stay artificially low. Our teens take one look at nursing as a career and think fuck that. Why spend years training and getting into debt for a mediocre wage? We continue to have a skills dearth and need to employ more foreign workers. They are in turn a brain drain on their home nations.
We have to train and produce our own skilled professionals and pay them according to the cost of living in this country. As long as we are able to ship them in from elsewhere that won’t happen.

a lot of people have an arguably misconception that they come here to take advantage of our welfare state and nhs.

A misconception deliberately fuelled, if not actually created, by the tabloids.

Not to mention, @olivehater, the ethical implications of poaching trained medics from third world countries to prop up the UK health service.

a lot of people have an arguably misconception that they come here to take advantage of our welfare state and nhs

As a leaver, I accept that immigration is a financial gain to the country. I question the distribution of the gain, and the value of 250,000-odd extra bodies in the country every single year.

Where it educates non-UK populations at the cost of the UK taxpayer, it should fall under the foreign aid budget or similar.

How does it cost a tax payer? Have you seen international student's fees

I work at a University. My department is the richest in the university due to the huge influx of fee paying foreign students. If some of them chose to stay in the UK they would make a very valuable contribution to the country.