Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To despair at the growing level of racism and xenophobia in this country?

276 replies

AlexaShutUp · 24/02/2020 18:40

I have just been told by the security guard at my local shop that the coronavirus is a "good thing" because it will stop people from traveling and it will therefore "keep them foreigners out". I am ashamed to say that I couldn't think of a good response quickly enough, and just muttered something disapproving but pretty incoherent back to him. Have so many much better responses going round in my head now, and I am annoyed that I didn't challenge him in a more articulate manner.

I know that there have always been racists and xenophobes, but I'm sure that there was a time when such hideous views would not have been expressed to a stranger in public. Over the last few years, it seems that there have been more and more comments of this nature, and it makes me so sad to see the ignorant, unwelcoming little nation we have become.

What sort of fuckwit thinks that a global pandemic is good news? And what sort of society makes people think it's ok to voice such opinions?

OP posts:
KC225 · 27/02/2020 07:05

One comment from a security guard and the whole country is becoming more racist and xenophobic! Generalise much OP?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 27/02/2020 07:30

I was going to come on and say what cory said

I dont think (may have misssed it) that anyone has said it was less racist In the 60s 70s or 80s, just that in their opinion britain is more racist Now than they remember it

Gilead · 27/02/2020 09:15

No dogs is fair enough. Dogs are smelly and dangerous and crap everywhere
The implication was that the people concerned were no better than dogs.

Gilead · 27/02/2020 09:18

Helga it had little to do with anything that happened in Kenya. In fact most of the prejudice came from the top down, including people like Attlee, although fought by Gaitskill.

HeadachesByTheDozen · 27/02/2020 12:51

OP, have you reported the security guard to the shop owner yet? Please do.

It is truly sad how ignorant people can be. It is usually those who are the racists we are talking about, that deny racism is getting worse. They call you a liar and deny your experience, because it makes it easier for them to continue their agenda of pushing the narrative that racism isn't a problem today. If they deny, devalue and invalidate any experience people have, they can continue living in their fantasy world, their echo chamber, and convince themselves they are right, and all us who speak our truth and experience are wrong. Of course anyone with an IQ and EQ above 20 can see racism is getting far worse. To deny it is to flat out LIE.

Invalidation goes hand in hand with the worst of the racists. They could be recorded saying racist things, yet will still twist and deny what they said is racist. It's the only way they can ease their guilt if they are cowards, or continue their racist agenda if they have no conscience. If they invalidate you and your experience they can continue to live a lie.

Frothybothie · 27/02/2020 13:02

Yes, I think it was about then. Watching tv now, there seems to a lot more mixed race and non white actors appearing. I think it was last year that Ofcom was featured saying yes, they had complaints from people objecting to the proportion/disproportion but diversity was a Good Thing so were not going to make any recommendations.

angell84 · 27/02/2020 13:50

Do you think that we should have anti- racism classes in schools?

People could come in and give a talk on how racism ruins their lives etc.

I know of one family, where the mother fled back to her home EU country with her children, and left the father in the UK, because she could not bear the racism that she received in the U.K. anymore.

So, that family, are split up, and the children rarely see their dad, totally and completely because of racism.

If people knew how racism ruins lives, they would stop.

AlexaShutUp · 27/02/2020 13:57

OP, have you reported the security guard to the shop owner yet? Please do.

Yes, I went in the next day and spoke to the store manager. He said that he would feed it back to the security company. He made all of the right noises, but tbh, I'm not sure that he really cared.

Thank you to Cory and Rufus for understanding and reiterating that I was talking about a recent increase, and not making a comparison with what happened in the 60s/70s/80s.

OP posts:
CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate · 27/02/2020 14:22

No one, as far as I can see, is saying that Britain is more racist than in the 60s. What they do seem to be saying (and I agree with them) is that there is more open racism than there was 10-20 years ago, that is, in the 2000s/2010s.

Sorry but I still don't agree. Take one subject hair: Now back as far as the late 90s early 2000s it was still a problem for poc to wear their natural hair to work. Even in something like cornrow. When I was 19, I went on a training work program for a job and me another girl went for the same job. I had my hair straightened, she had natural short twists.

She did better in the interview than I did but I got the job and she didn't. Why? they openly wrote feedback saying her hair was 'untidy' this was discussed out loud in the group as an actual failure. We accepted it then. This would be challenged now, but was fairly common just 20 years ago. People may still straighten or wear weaves now, but the difference is you might genuinely not have got a job in my day if you didn't.

Getting makeup that complemented your skin tone was another problem. Unless you could afford Fashion Fair, you were stuck with Sleek or if you were fair skinned/mixed race you might just scrape by with the darker 'Get the London Look' Rimmel shades (the irony of the London look being almost exclusively white never occurred to their PR team).

I remember when Tyra Banks released a beauty book and I waited all day outside Foyles to get a copy because there was so little for a young black woman to look to as inspiration or tips for black beauty. Naomi and Tyra were 'it' for ages. Bobby brown makeup was noted for including ranges for all skin tones. Now there is more choice.

I was constantly refused jobs once I turned up for interview, because I sounded white on the phone. One day I went into an office for a junior assistant role and saw the PA and she wanted to hire me on the spot. But the manager wasn't in and she said 'I just have to get the ok from him, but it's more or less yours. Phone back first thing in the morning'.

Phone back next morning. The PA is weirdly tearful and saying sorry over and over and that she 'cannot' give me the job. When I asked why she said 'I can't tell you. It's not because you weren't qualified' She said it in such a way as for me to understand her implication that her boss was a racist and simply didn't want a black face in his team.

Robertsons' jam still had Gollywogs on it's front. There were debates as to whether it was racist. Can you imagine a debate about that now? There were no adverts featuring black women especially. Olay never had a woman of colour in its ads. Black babies never featured in nappy ads etc etc. And even 20 years ago many black children were not encouraged to go to university after school. There were low expectations. I think my sons have way more opportunities now.

There's more I could say.

Yes these issues still exist, but from my lived experience, I can see strides that have been made. Of course there's still a waaay to go.

What there is now however, is a backlash against the extreme PC left wing identity politics and I do think some of that is justified. Unfortunately some of that backlash is being high jacked by some racists hiding behind the 'tell it like it is, spade is a spade' rhetoric. That doesn't mean there's an actual increase in racism in the culture though.

I do also think Brexit is heavily skewing things.

Twillow · 27/02/2020 16:27

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad

And therein lies the question, what do you hold responsible for the issue of the economy? People seem to fall into two camps, quite strongly blaming either
a) immigration
or
b) austerity

It, therefore, makes sense to suggest that people who feel a) is responsible absolutely will tend to have a much less welcoming and tolerant attitude towards non-brits. The implementation of Brexit does seem to have emboldened the expression of these views.

Patroclus · 27/02/2020 16:42

'laughable to say racism is increasing in Britain''

Care to comment on this, Babdoc?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863

'Racism and race-related hate crime has increased since the 2016 Brexit referendum, with officers appointed to deal with resultant "tensions".'

Patroclus · 27/02/2020 16:50

What are you wittering on about 'destroying jobs' Throwinggoodafterbad? who is?

Patroclus · 27/02/2020 16:58

So black people wernt allowed into guesthouses etc because of the Kenyan uprising (in which British forces tortured tens of thousands and killed thousands more) because Kenyans= all black people and that makes it all ok and resonable. I cant even imagine what sort of person would even think to write that down. Its beyond idiotic (although it is that to) and just goes into the downright weird. Im almost tempted to ask if you believe the holocaust happened. Nutcase.

Patroclus · 27/02/2020 17:02

Clement Atlee was long gone. It was that great racist Winston Churchill who got stuck into torturing Kenyans and putting them in concentration camps.

angell84 · 27/02/2020 17:29

Has anyone come up with any ideas to tackle racism in the U.K. yet?

I have proposed anti racism classes in schools. Anyone got any other ideas?

contentedsoul · 27/02/2020 17:42

Has anyone come up with any ideas to tackle racism in the U.K. yet?

I don’t really know how to convey what I mean, but the woman in the news the other day who was awarded £400K for racism has probably just put the war on racism back 20yrs.
When I think back to the mid 70’s and 80’s racism was rife. Over the years it’s toned down considerably...it hasn’t gone...and there will always be people that judge...that’s just life.
But to award someone almost half a million for racial comments when rape victims, assault victims receive nothing like on that scale - sends out the wrong message. And will anger a lot of people who normally wouldn’t judge.

angell84 · 27/02/2020 17:46

@contentedsoul I didn't know that story. I will look it up.

But I think that racism SHOULD be taken EXTREMELY seriously. It ruins peoples lives. People should be able to live safely in a place, without discrimination.

ThrowingGoodAfterBad · 27/02/2020 17:55

What are you wittering on about 'destroying jobs' Throwinggoodafterbad? who is? and Twillow

There are several factors at stake in the destruction of the labour market. One is IT which is now taking more jobs than it creates. What I actually said was that real jobs that actually pay are being destroyed. We're living in an employers' market, where they can continually 'witter on', to use that phrase, about a skills shortage that in many areas does not exist, as they continually force people to have more skills and work harder for less pay, less security and weaker protections in law. I'm more familiar with it happening in the public sector. If anyone is unfamiliar with the way the wages of employment has steadily decreased over the last few years I can only ask where have you been.

As for whether austerity or immigration is to blame: we are operating now in a global market so it is not simple. We have to take into account that we are facing a race to the bottom in terms of employment. Obviously austerity and the refusal of the rich to fund the public sector has had multiple effects: it has directly reduced jobs or pushed them into the "voluntary" sector, it has destroyed infrastructure which private companies rely on, and it has destroyed stepping stones through which the poorer groups can better themselves. Whoever told you that life offered simple binary choices?

Sarcelle · 27/02/2020 18:32

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate - your post is the most sensible one on here.

TheRealMcKenna · 27/02/2020 18:42

Has anyone come up with any ideas to tackle racism in the U.K. yet?

I hear the BBC are doing a series on ‘whiteness’. No doubt it will hammer home Munroe whaterver-her-name-is’ view that all white people are racist unless they are actively fighting racism.

Those ‘dinner parties’ that wealthy white women in California arrange for self-flagellation also help tremendously (as featured in the Guardian).

Telling people off for cultural appropriation is a winning strategy.

Gilead · 27/02/2020 18:48

Sorry Patroclus, but if you take a look at the letters available at Kew, Atlee was indeed involved. As of course was Churchill, as you stated.

Gilead · 27/02/2020 18:50

(I’m talking about UK racism, not Kenya).

Devlesko · 27/02/2020 18:54

Has anyone come up with any ideas to tackle racism in the U.K. yet?

Yep me. I am only just starting though, and I only tackle racism of GRT in UK, for younger kids and Europe for the older ones.
Education is the only way, because kids learn from parents, then they teach their kids the same because it was how they were raised.
Get them young and change a generation, I hope.

HelgaHere1 · 27/02/2020 19:36

I think with the inclusion of different races on tv eg in adverts and the many black people in sport, many of them sporting heroes, and music, DCs will stop seeing the skin colour.

BritneyPeedOnALadybug · 27/02/2020 20:27

@angell84
I know of one family, where the mother fled back to her home EU country with her children, and left the father in the UK, because she could not bear the racism that she received in the U.K. anymore.

Which is sad for her and her family.

In the last decade or so, 9 times out of 10, racist comments and actions directed at me have come from white people from European countries who have settled into their own enclaves in areas round here and who, I assume, aren’t used to interacting with non-white people a lot. I was born here. Where do I flee to to escape the racism I receive?