To think that most people voted to leave the EU to stop freedom of movement?

[Moomin8]

The proposed new rules the government have supposedly set out that are designed to keep out 'low skilled' workers seem to me like social cleansing. Most recently , when people moan about 'immigrants' they are always talking about people from Eastern Europe in my experience.

What really annoys me is that almost all leaver voters deny repeatedly that their vote had anything to do with the fact they wanted freedom of movement stopped.

Sorry if this has been done to death. But why won't people just be honest?

Yes, migrants were coming from Africa and Asia. But significant anti-EU sentiment was stoked by the fact that the EU wasn’t stopping them passing through multiple countries and was allowing them to reach Calais and set up camp there. There were concerns that they wanted to come to the UK and could achieve that by for example getting a French passport then just walking in under freedom of movement. There was also talk of the EU forcing us to take a quota. And Turkey was saying it would unleash waves of migrants if the EU didn’t concede to its demands to join the bloc.

Most leave voters I know voted leave because of 'too many immigrants' despite the fact they live in an overwhelming white British part of the country. It's Muslims they really hate, I can't wait until they realise ending FOM for me and my kids means more brown Asian Muslims. Ha ha, serve them right, for being stupid racist fucks.

Correct. At the end of 2018, there had been a substantial fall in net migration from European Union countries since the referendum, but net migration from elsewhere (the type the UK had at that point more control over) was at its highest level since 2004.

The trends so far suggest that leaving the EU is only going to make a tiny dent in the country’s net migration figures. But as you say it will inevitably mean that a greater proportion of the new arrivals will be non-white and non-Christian.

I do hope that Brexiteers realise this before they die. Ha, ha.

I voted leave because I told believe in free movement. The numbers in human trafficking are horrendous! This will make it more difficult for some cases. It will protect children from being "abducted" from their parents too if an Esta equivalent is needed. If you can afford to move around Europe then you can afford a few £ more to protect vulnerable people from around the world.
I also disagree with the amount of low skill workers entering. There is a social housing issue, we should be fussier! We need higher skilled people in engineering and tech. We need industry! None of this would happen with the EU breathing down our necks.

The social housing issues have been caused by RTB and regeneration, (where estates have been demolished and new estates comprising of a lot less social housing have been built in their place.

How the fuck has the Eu prevented us from having higher skilled people in engineering and technology?

And the EU didn't 'breathe down our necks'. We played a (leading) part in making decisions as part of a collective organisation.

We need higher skilled people in engineering and tech. We need industry! None of this would happen with the EU breathing down our necks

Explain this please? You can’t because you’re wrong.

As for social housing - that’s a problem because thatcher and those after her sold it off. They actively privatised social housing by selling it off for massive discounts and did not replace it because they didn’t want to.

There were concerns that they wanted to come to the UK and could achieve that by for example getting a French passport then just walking in under freedom of movement.

Complete misconception of asylum rules and naturalisation. Yes migrants can get asylum in France (although not everyone gets it, far from it) but that doesn't give them the right to use FOM. Those who stick around long enough (many years) to a) get asylum and b) become French nationals will have their lives in France by then.

That is true Iggly. even throughout the Blair and Brown years it wasn’t replaced because they realised it was cheaper and easier to foist the problem off into the hands of private landlords and pay out HB to low income tenants instead.

That doesn’t alter the fact that there is a shortage of reasonably priced housing both social and private sectors, because of the vast numbers of people who require it. More immigrants, be they EU or otherwise does nothing to help that and everything to compound it, especially if they qualify for HB.

Turkey was saying it would unleash waves of migrants if the EU didn’t concede to its demands to join the bloc.

If they do that and we've left and cooperation between UK and EU is at an all time low, do you think France will be more helpful in trying to prevent illegal immigrants to reach the UK?
If you don't want illegal immigration- which has nothing to do with the EU and won't stop after brexit- was pissing off the neighbours the brightest move?

I work in construction and am genuinely concerned about the impact of the points-based system. There’s a recruitment crisis in the industry anyway, with less young people joining- the British element of the work force is ageing. This has been supplemented by skilled tradesmen from the EU (lots of whom will earn under the threshold for entry). That will all stop soon. I’m not sure how we’re supposed to find all these carpenters etc magically from within the UK? Even if the ‘natives’ step up, it will take time to train them.

I think we’re looking into the eyes of a very serious skills shortage, and that costs will rise as a result. Maybe the government will listen when it starts affecting some of their construction work.

The other sector that jumps out as being in trouble due to this is the care sector.

It’s not cheaper to pay out HB though. Millions are paid out to private landlords as families need temporary accommodation as they have no affordable homes.

I don’t think it was done for cheapness. It was done as a way of bribing voters and giving private landlords ways of lining their pockets. Nothing to do with it being cheaper.

Affordable housing is a problem because wages are low and housing costs are high.

This is not because of immigration. It’s because the housing market has been propped up as the government cannot bear to let house prices fall.

If governments had properly funded local authorities and let them build we’d have less of a housing problem.

If the banks would lend mortgages again (so many people have £000s of savings and decent salaries but cannot get a mortgage) then we’d have less of a problem.

Laying the problem at the feet of immigrants when they too are victims of the economic model is just ignorance. People fail to see the bigger picture at play.

Surely the more people that are here the more there is a demand for accommodation whether rented, social or owned?

We kept being told we needed more affordable housing built but what's the point if it doesn't go to the people already here waiting patiently on the housing list.

In the building industry I'm sure the EU workers were favourable because I'm not convinced they all went through the books and were possibly paid cash in hands and were laid off when not required.

I remember in the 80s some Irish friends whose partners worked on building sites which was a common thing (and they also claimed the dole but this was tightened, up rightly so)

Imagine all the young people who might have been trained to be plumbers/ bricklayers/ plasterers/ hotel staff over the last 15 years who didn't have that opportunity due to employers using cheaper already trained east Europeans.
Employers need to get their shit together and offer decent wages and conditions and train their own plumbers etc. We have a serious dearth of jobs to offer DCs due to immigration.

We are told there isn’t enough affordable housing, not that there isn’t enough housing. I think immigration is not the cause of that - it may well be a factor in some areas but not the sole cause.

The housing market is broken because house prices are propped up by government policy.

People can not afford to rent or buy. How is that the fault of immigrants? Immigrants haven’t stopped central government building social housing which is cheaper and makes a profit.

They (the government) just don’t want to. Why? Because so many of them are private landlords and would lose out.

Our young people are being trained in the colleges to do these skilled roles. I'm sure it was to do with the poor EU workers being exploited for low wages and bad conditions in certain cases.

We are told there isn’t enough affordable housing, not that there isn’t enough housing
My council is meeting its overall house building target but falling to meet its target for affordable houses. They just shrug and say they can’t force the developers to build a certain type of housing in a certain location. The developers all want to build big executive houses on greenfield sites because they sell for the highest price. They don’t want to build social housing. They don’t want to build bungalows or 1bed flats. And more often than not they don’t want to build on brownfield sites even when there’s a strong local need for these industrial sites to be reused.

The developers all want to build big executive houses on greenfield sites because they sell for the highest price. They don’t want to build social housing.

Nothing to do with the EU and not likely to improve post brexit.

Absolutely disgusting remarks on this thread basically saying “haha now Brexiters will have to cope with a Asian/ African migrants”...so?!
Proves my point, people are only in uproar because the curb on migration will now affect white people. Vile racist comments from the so called left, shocking!

My council is meeting its overall house building target but falling to meet its target for affordable houses. They just shrug and say they can’t force the developers to build a certain type of housing in a certain location

They could commission house builders directly to build using their own borrowing and profits from sales of council homes.

however central government have made that incredibly difficult because of the rules around using sales proceeds from right to buy receipts. Why?

Because they want to make it harder to build social housing.

I voted leave because I told believe in free movement. The numbers in human trafficking are horrendous!

How is loss of freedom of movement supposed to stop human trafficking? It's an illegal activity. Most victims are from non-EU countries anyway:
From Wiki:
Source countries for trafficking victims in the UK include the United Arab Emirates, Lithuania, Russia, Albania, Ukraine, Malaysia, Thailand, the People's Republic of China (P.R.C.), Nigeria, and Ghana.

We have always had border controls in place where these victims could have been stopped but most of them are brought through illegally. This isn't going to change due to the ending of FOM. Even if some are from EU countries, the cost of a visa waiver will be no more than a few pounds, hardly enough to put off a trafficking ring.

Turkey was saying it would unleash waves of migrants if the EU didn’t concede to its demands to join the bloc.

EU membership isn't granted on the basis of threat. You have to demonstrate you can meet the acquis communautaire - economic, political and fiscal criteria. Turkey has been trying to join since the 1980s. In that time it has met just one of the 35 criteria for entry. And that was human rights, so it's probably lost that under Erdogan anyway. It stands no chance of becoming a member, threats or no threats.

In the building industry I'm sure the EU workers were favourable because I'm not convinced they all went through the books and were possibly paid cash in hands and were laid off when not required.

We had building work done on our house. All the builders were UK born and bred and all made it clear they were more than happy to be paid cash in hand. This is a case of unethical builders (and their customers) full stop, not unethical Polish builders.

The actual employees are not necessarily unethical Dippy i.e. Polish builders. It could be the actual company employing them or the sub contractor.

I haven't read the whole thread. But as someone who is emigrating from India to the UK this summer, I thought I would post this article on how the new system is being welcomed in India.
www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/indian-industry-students-welcome-uk-s-new-points-based-visa-system/story-pSbzzASA9KCpFoDVcK0yVP.html I think the skilled jobs may well be filled by South Asians and Chinese. Brexiteers who voted to keep brown people out are going to be rather disappointed. They are the ones overflowing with STEM degrees.

Iggly it is cheaper and far more streamlined in terms of administration and staffing. it’s not just identifying and paying for suitable building land (extremely expensive these days and there are relatively few sites left with suitable infrastructure around them.) it’s then the building costs and the running of utilities to those areas and making sure there are schools and bus routes etc. Then it’s the cost of ongoing maintenance of the housing stock, whether it’s done in house or outsourced, and the staffing levels necessary to manage all that along with management of the tenancies. Large scale social housing projects are not cheap to run.

At the moment all maintenance and upgrading falls to the private landlord or housing association and all the council needs to do is pay a relatively small number of people to manage the HB side of things.

they want to make it harder to build social housing
My council doesn’t want to build social housing because it’s subject to right to buy after five years so they feel it’s pointless. They invest in building houses, a tenant lives there for five years and then they’re forced to sell it at a huge discount, making a loss.