To think that you've either got it or you haven't when it comes to school

[blubberball]

I wasn't any good at school (obviously). I daydreamed my way through, never fitting in. Neither clever nor naughty enough to be noticed.

My older brother was very clever and good at school. Schools would thank my parents for sending him there, and would predict him doing great things when he grew up. He passed exams, went on to higher education and university, at a time when grants were still available, otherwise my parents would not have been able to afford to send him, and he now has a high status, high paid job and is happy.

My mum was clever and good at school.

My ds is 12 and seems very similar to me. Really not engaged or interested in school. Trying to get him to try harder and do his homework, and put any effort in at all. He couldn't care less.

So do you think with school, you've either got it or you haven't? If you're going to be good at school, then you will be naturally. If you're not good at school, no amount of trying is going to get you any better? I guess we can't all be good at school. I don't know.

I think luck plays a part.

I had ADHD, dyscalculia, social anxiety, was badly bullied at school, teachers hated me, and I had abuse going on at home and an alcoholic parent who nearly killed me. I failed all my GCSE's.

I got myself into a really good college when I was older and the teachers there were brilliant. I got key skills and A levels and I'd stay up all night writing and writing and writing for each subject. I cried with frustration so many times at why I just couldn't concentrate - nothing would go "in" no matter how hard I tried to concentrate.

I passed A levels with low grades so they don't mean anything to any university so I feel like I just wasted my time.

My eldest is a little genius. He started teaching himself Spanish in Reception and could do the same work in both English and Spanish. All his teachers were just blown away. He was at year 3 level. Reading age of 10.

Youngest is 3 and he's barely knows the alphabet because he just isn't interested in learning. He talks in long coherent sentences and is full of life - and you never really know - but I think he's going to be more sporty or creative.

I don't think education is for everyone. But I can't get employed without one.

University lecturer here. I have taught a good many MA and PhD students who were written off at school, told they were thick by teachers, but later in life came back to their studies. Many of them had undiagnosed SEN. But once they had overcome their sense of inferiority and accessed the help they needed- they could fly.

I assume the ability was always there, inside their brains. But school wasn't where they were going to find out about it.

And of course there was a massive attitude problem to overcome. Those who hadn't already been working hard at school had had to go from "there's no point, so why would I put in the effort" to "I don't care, I am going to take that risk and put in the effort". But they did it.

Wouldn't agree with the totally negative attitude towards manual work though: there are plenty of non-graduate jobs that depend on very real skills indeed. Some of them are not badly paid once you have learnt the trade and gained a bit of experience.

That depends on what ‘it’ is.

I’m naturally very good at subjects that are over valued, maths, science, english (for a non-native speaker) etc. I am however incredibly lazy. Education was massively valued at home (asian) it’s the only positive thing my parents ever did. Well no, that’s a lie, they got me to grade 8 piano which hugely helped me get into Cambridge.

But as I’m lazy and fairly clever I could get away with doing very little, then school got harsh and banned me from playing rugby if I was being lazy/disruptive in lessons. I valued rugby above everything at school, so for me that threat generally worked.

I then realised when I was about 15 that the only way to escape my family was going to university. That made me really sort myself out, as a result I achieved A/A* in all my GCSE’s apart from art.

I hated As-Level as I was bored, free to play as much rugby as I liked and attend college whenever I felt like. My 17 year old brain then decided I probably wouldn’t make it to uni, so I stole my Dads taxi takings and moved out. I had a fantastic year in London doing some fairly questionable things, then it started getting harder to find places to crash so I had to get a job. Being a waiter was shit, so I started my A-levels again and managed to come out with four A grades and studied maths (actuarial science) at Cambridge.

I may be naturally academic, but I need what I call ‘The Fear’ to actually use my brain. I’m still the same.

Damn meant press preview.

My son is four, I want to encourage, but I know there is a fine line between encouraging and being pushy. He’s doing okay so far, he can read Mog books etc independently with good reading comprehension, he can add/subtract two digit numbers and he’s not bad at multiplying by two. Like me he’s bilingual.

So far he really enjoys doing new things and working hard to achieve something. I’m well aware this will probably change!

I always tried at school and it always said I did in my reports, but I just couldn’t get it. I only got one GCSE at grade C most were E’s. All my younger siblings did really well at school and we all went to the same schools. They all went to university, I didn’t.

I was rubbish at school only thing I liked was English and English lit. Got a few 'o ' levels and cse s ( my A in lit was my one and only educational achievement in life) then got the hell out of my second rate comp! It wasn't a great education at any level in the 1970s.
I hated school but I was never disruptive and just plodded on being thick at maths and science : appalling bad.
My dh went to a inner London school and did really well as his mum pushed him and he is very academic ; just born with brains and worked hard. I could have tried harder but just didn't want too. Didn't fit in and nothing about it makes me misty eyed at all. Even the teachers gave up on me and my friends back then but then jobs were easier to come by and we were seen as just about good enough to go and get one.
It's a complex subject and I'm pleased that schools are better today than they were in ' my day' but maybe it's just because my school wasn't that great I think I this way. Teachers are much more put upon and stressed these days ; it's not an easy job at all.

deliberate dicking about with free education is appallingly entitled, in a world where many don't get educated and some are shot for trying to go to school. (this is my problem with Thunberg - protest on your own time!)

it is the role of parents to make it clear that you go to school and you bloody well pay attention. And to deal with any obstacles such as bullying, poor teaching etc.

I think you are right to a point OP.

There are those who really enjoy learning and so will survive or even thrive anywhere.

But there are probably more of those who need encouraging and coaxing and they will only thrive in the right environment.
And we all fit into one or the other. No one is utterly hopeless, everyone will thrive in the right environment but unfortunately the general education system only caters to one type.

I think, sad as it is, "neither bright enough or naughty enough to stand out" applies to a lot of kids and is quite common in those who dont reach their potential.

To be honest your messages from page 1 all just come over as one giant shit happens shrug.

I think that some people are more naturally academic than others, in the same way that some have a natural talent for art, sport or music. A greater number of people won't have that talent but can do well if they work hard. Some people will struggle and although they'll improve with effort, they'll never be 'good at' whatever it is.

School is far more complicated. I was naturally academic but hated school from a very early age. I took a lot of time off and would never do homework. I can see why an outsider might have written it off as laziness, but I was absolutely miserable at school, didn't want to be there, and didn't want to think about it once I'd left the building. I had no aspirations because the impression I got of university was that it was just like more school, and if you went then you were basically a child for longer (Nobody in my family or social circle had gone). Having a job meant having some sense of worth and status.

I know other people who weren't so academic but who enjoyed school and have gone on to be fairly successful.

I eventually went to university in my late twenties. The psychological barriers were the most difficult to overcome and my first year was fairly awful in that respect, but I'm now a PhD student so it sort of worked out.

Schooling is very very dumbed down these days. A good school/teacher would easily get the vast majority of students to succeed give the resources.

This is absolute nonsense! It makes adults feel superior to talk about how exams are easier “these days” and that children don’t know how lucky they are, etc. I’ve looked at my 1990s GCSE and A-level work and it’s nowhere near the level of skills or knowledge that are required today. I’m a secondary school teacher and I’m certain that qualifications have got progressively harder over the past couple of decades.

My eldest has finished school and my youngest is still there, both are of very similar academic ability (same grades in Yr 2 SATs, same predicted grades at GCSE, same sets in secondary school). The work my youngest was doing in year 6 was stuff my eldest wasn't doing until year 10. Stuff he was doing in year 10 triple science is the same as the eldest was doing in 6th form.

I think sometimes people confuse not liking a subject or not liking a particular teacher with being crap at school. Lots of people go back to education at a later date and surprise themselves that "oh, I'm not crap after all!"

It sounds like your low self esteem and depression are holding you back more than a lack of ability. Have you ever done any careers counselling or psychometric testing to see what you might be best suited to? Also because your brother sounds so bloody perfect, maybe your parents didn't have high expectations of you and that can lead to low attainment.

I've had several jobs over the years that I was okay at but never really excelled in because they didn't really fit my skill-set. But when I retrained in my 40s in something I'm actually good at and enjoy, I found I did really well.

In short, we need to help people to discover what they would be best doing in life and they are much more likely to succeed in it.

Schooling is very very dumbed down these days

Rubbish. I work in a school and I can assure you that current GCSE students are working significantly over and above (in terms of both complexity and workload) what was expected of me when I did my GCSE's.

I am Dyslexic and know that if it wasn,t for my parents I wouldn,t have got the help I did. Some teachers would help you and help ou to believe inyourself. Others seemed to just let you float along. I wasn,t led to believe i would get a degree but I did. Ok I don,t need it for my job but it is relevant to what I do which is more then some can say.

And those saying children these days don,t have probs or school is dumped down, I,d say talk to teachers and they may tell you otherwise.

I think that some people are more naturally academic than others, in the same way that some have a natural talent for art, sport or music

Yet school doesn’t reflect this does it?

I work with kids with dyslexia, ADHD etc and I know some would rather muck about and not try, than try and fail. The reason for that is to protect their already very fragile self-esteem. Nobody likes to feel they are stupid and worthless.

My work is more than just the academic though; it's to build their self-esteem and resilience. I also want to give them a love of life long learning, whatever kind of learning that may be, academic or skilled work. Everyone should have the opportunity to achieve their potential, whatever that is.

Sadly though, as a school we are judged on our results, so it's a tightrope act to get them making progress and keep them motivated.

This thread has been really interesting for me to read. I really do appreciate that teaching is one of the most important, and most difficult jobs going. What a responsibility, to be teaching the next generation. I admire good teachers.

And I have absolute respect for good teachers I should add. Hats off to you. Under paid and under appreciated.

I think you forging your parents signature is a bit dysfunctional.

I was good at school but it hasn't translated into much.

Vulpine, yes it probably is.

@marashino no, but everyone I know who teaches at a secondary/tertiary level says this so I accept their opinion because my experience is limited to having been through the system very recently (I did find it extremely over simplified but I couldn’t comment on whether it’s always been that way or not).

but everyone I know who teaches at a secondary/tertiary level says this

I find that very hard to believe, the secondary school curriculum is anything but dumbed down. Struggling to pay for resources but dumbed down, far from it.