to think 111 is a total liability...

[M3lon]

They advised us we needed to take our DD (8yo) to A&E last night at 10pm because she had a small splinter of ceramic tile under her finger nail.

I'm not sure the NHS needs this kind of 'help'.

I’m a GP and I totally agree - it’s utterly ridiculous. The worst is trying to explain to patients who’ve been given that sort of advice why I’m not going to follow it. Or when 111 sets unnecessary time frames for when you should be offered a GP apppointment - before either 1 or 4 hours and patients get irate when you can’t fit them in! It’s worse than useless.

I warn you MN posters seem to love 111 tho...

bobby yes indeed! It was all "you need to see a doctor within 3 hours"....I mean how is that supposed to happen when its 10pm? Well go to A&E obviously!

In my experience 111 have either sent us to OOH (cough that had passed before we even got to the hospital but which had concerned me enough to ask for advice about until I could get to the GP the next day) or tell you it's fine and not to worry unless the child is turning blue (son with chickenpox who was struggling to breathe and was diagnosed later that day with pneumonitis and was taken to hospital in an ambulance, on oxygen, after I called the GP and made an emergency appt). There appears to be no sensible middle ground.

I agree - we have never rung them and not been told to go to A&E.

We called one time when our 18 month old had been sick for a couple of days she was keeping fluids down but not food - we just wanted to know when it would become a problem, how long, what signs to look for.

They sent an ambulance - even though we were clearly saying she was fine - not listless or overly pale. We only rang them as it did not seem serious enough to bother the GP surgery. The ambulance then said it was policy to take all under 2's to A&E regardless - so we ended up in A&E for a child who had a bit of a tummy bug.

It was totally excessive and over the top reaction and has prevented us from seeking advice again.

What advice were you hoping to get at 10pm though? If you consider its not serious enough to need a+e, would you not just put a clean dressing on, give some pain relief and go to minor injuries or call your own gp first thing in the morning.

In our area, I've found 111 quite helpful. Mostly be cause they've been able to organise out of hours GP appointments for DD when she had recurring UTIs. I also rang once because I was 90% certain that a broken toe was not worth a trip to A&E and wasn't sure. They agreed, it wasn't worth it and he recommended painkillers and ice. So I've found them good.

But I do agree that because of the way the risk assessment works, there's a real likelihood of being sent to A&E "just in case".

Sorry Toria just to clarify - you called because you had a cough for a few hours?

I dont generally bother anymore unless its something im really teetering on the edge of a and e with, it seems their default answer is a and e for everything, they sent my friend an ambulance she didnt ask for or need for her son having a wheezy cough.

I’ve always had pretty good advice to be honest; they are more of a safe than sorry service but I guess as I’ve always called about my child I’ve preferred that. I was once sent to a&e, other times I’ve seen an out of hours doctor or just been given reassurance or advice

I found calling 111 really helpful.

They sent an ambulance - even though we were clearly saying she was fine - not listless or overly pale. We only rang them as it did not seem serious enough to bother the GP surgery.

I would always "bother" the GP surgery first. That's what they're there for surely? I use 111 when either I think maybe I should go to A&E or when it's out of hours and I don't know what to do in terms of rushing her to hospital, giving her calpol and getting antibiotics the next morning or whatever.

What did you expect them to say?
It needed to be removed.

Reasonable to assume you didn't have the means to do so or you would have.
At 10pm most walk in or minor injury clinics are closed.
A&E sounds like the next logical step to me.

The thing is, they are given a set of questions on a computer that they put your answers into and tell you what is on the screen, they have no medical training and cannot deviate from the advice they are told to give. Imagine if someone phoned up with stomach pains and the algorithm said the patient should go to A&E but the operator mentioned that they thought it just sounded like indigestion - if that person then died because of an appendicitis it would be the operators fault for giving the wrong advice. It's safer for everyone for them to overreact - I don't think 111 is great but they have helped me to get out of hours appointments at times when I've needed them, I do agree the system does often send out more ambulances and give much smaller time frames to see a doctor than they need to though.

Yes. The few times we've had to use them, its been a pointless experience. They always ask if the patient is conscious and breathing... last time I'd already explained that I was ringing about MYSELF... no obvoiusly I am neither conscious or breathing that's why I'm talking to you

Then you get one of a few responses

• go to out of hours
• go to A&E

or we'll get someone to phone you back in a bit. I was really worried about dd on this occassion. It was 11pm. I was with her by myself. After 2 hours no call back and when I phoned them they said not to worry I was on the list. finally at 1.30am gave up and went to A&E where they were in 2 minds about admitting her but decided to send her home but with instruction to see GP later that day .. got home at 9.30am to the phone ringing... it was NHS direct "you phoned us and we're just doing a follow up call". I asked if they'd phoned back earlier and they made it clear that no this was the first one... that's rubbish.

Sorry that was a rant... but YANBU OP they seem to do more harm than good and probably cost the NHS a small fortune in unnecessary A&E and OOH attendances

The irony is that now I'd just by pass them and go and find a doctor or alternatively visit the pharmasist who seem much more capable than 111.

Why did you ring them for a splinter?

Wash hand in very mild solution of dettol, then soak regularly in the bath until splinter comes out. If it hasn’t moved in a couple of days, nip into the surgery and ask to see the practice nurse.

You can refuse the disposition you know! If you refuse then they can get you to speak to a clinician which is either a paramedic or nurse.

It can take a while to get a call back as there’s so many people in the queue. Hundreds are calling every day....

I've phoned 111 four times over 7 years and they've sent an ambulance to me three times (because I don't drive) even though I told them I wasn't concerned enough to feel an ambulance was warranted, and two of those times I insisted I can walk to the hospital in 20 minutes due to where I lived at the time.
I will avoid using the number now as I just feel they end up wasting the emergency services in the way I was trying to avoid, by phoning them in the first place 🤦🏻‍♀️.

I've rung them three times and they always been really helpful. Once when I needed advise about a chicken pox vaccine (long story but got a call back from a doctor in an appropriate amount of time who answered all my questions appropriately), once recently (pregnant, some symptoms of a UTI and vomitted for the first time since I was 7, got advice I agreed with), and once that I can't remember! As with everything people will always have a mix of experiences 🤷‍♀️

I had a fall with 6mo DS on the stairs ast week. I was pretty sure he was ok (smiling within 5min), but didn't want to do nothing. I expected to be told to attend A&E. They got me speaking to a GP in my practice within 10 minutes and we didn't need to be seen. I was really grateful.

It's essentially triage, via the phone by someone who isn't a registered HCP. People should have reasonable expectations, but it does serve a purpose.

Why did you call them?

What did you think they were going to suggest at 10pm?

I’m working in 111 at the moment. The whole system was designed by doctors, I’m not actually allowed to tell people to stay at home ( because I’m on secondment) without contacting their Gp even though I’m clinically trained. While your surgery is open 111 is purely a signposting service and I am so fed up with surgeries telling people to phone 111. We can’t do anything.
I’m also constantly surprised at the sheer lack of common sense displayed by most people who call, if you’re fit and healthy normally but have a sore throat and a snotty nose you don’t need any advice. Those sort of calls seem to take up the majority of my time.

Also, overcautious advice can never be 'a liability'.

Just need to say 111 can be utterly brilliant sometimes.

Ds caught swine flu at 2y2m and they organised for emergency GP in the night and ds was admitted to paediatric ICT.

So I like them.