AIBU to remove all privileges from my 12yo?

[itswonkylampshade]

I realise this is partly age and stage but she’s becoming increasingly sullen, moody and hostile, including towards her 4yo sister (who is a sharp cookie and admittedly responds in kind).

She’s a lucky girl, has more than many children and actually has a lot of freedom. She gets pocket money, has her own laptop, mobile (with screen time limits which is an affront to her), takes part in two reasonably pricey sporting hobbies and still all we get from her is rudeness and blank refusal to do the most basic things around the house... her room is like a squat, she puts clean, folded clothes back into the wash rather than go to the effort of putting them into her drawers (if I insist, it’s a confrontation and then she won’t close the drawers!), she won’t put any real effort into homework, won’t read, won’t practise her music...I actually had to force her to change her clothes and take a shower last night as her socks were filthy and had obviously been worn for days. I am totally sick of the sound of myself telling her (patiently) every single mealtime to eat with her mouth closed.

I’m at my wits end and also worried about her. I’ve closed down her screen time completely today, stopped my direct debit for her pocket money and told her she can earn these privileges by behaving better and helping out round the house.

Op. My almost 12 year old boy is EXACTLY the same as this. I think it's just normal. I was the same as a teen/pre teen too.

We have the same conversations, battles, arguments over teeth, showering, clothes, homework, bedroom, eating.

Haven't got the answers, but you're not alone and it's probably a phase so pick your battles.

I know eating with her mouth full is the least of your worries, but on the tack of consequences - my aunt cured my cousin of eating with his mouth full by placing a mirror in front of him as he ate......the mirror stopped the rest of us having to watch, and he didn't enjoy the spectacle.
I agree with PP's about giving her chances to "win" things back; I'd guess that deep down, she does "give a shit" but as a very funny way of showing it.
She is 12; is this partly due to adjusting to the move to high school, or is she young in Year 8? Either way, she can be feeling overwhelmed by being bottom of the pecking order, and is overcompensating by throwing her weight around where she can?

I can totally empathise with you.
My daughter is 14, and if I don’t continuously ask her to shower she simply won’t. To the point she absolutely stinks. I’ve told her that I’m not being cruel! I’m telling her because I don’t want other people talking about her behind her back!
Her bedroom is awful. Absolutely awful. In my last house it got so bad we got mice!
The only thing I can think to do is stop asking her to clean it- but once a week I going to go in her room and put anything on the floor into a bin bag. I’ll put that bin bag hidden somewhere but when she no doubt comes to me asking where certain things are I’ll say they’re in the bin. I’ll continue to do this until when it hurts her enough she’ll stop living in squalor. If in a 2 months she’s clicked on I’m not giving in and starts to take better care of her room I’ll retrieve the bin bag and return her stuff. But if it starts getting bad again I’ll repeat the process.
Honestly, having teenagers is the hardest thing I’ve ever ever done. I totally understand my own mother now and the things she used to say - one being ‘you’re my daughter, I love you- but I don’t like you at the moment’
I feel tense around my 14 year old and at times bullied in my own home.
I believe that teenagers are such hard work as it’s nature’s way of breaking the strong bond down so we can eventually let them fly the nest and live their own life. If we continuously have the bond we do when they’re babies we’d never let them go.
You’re not on your own, I feel the pain also!

Oh I have one of these too. Shes just wrecked another pair of school shoes and lost her pe socks. Her reply? She shrugs and says just buy some more.
Cant get her in the shower without a fight and very rarely get underwear to wash. Weve had the 'you smell' chat. Shes not fussed. I get up at 4am for work every morning so by the time shes home at 4pm I'm too tired to argue. And boy can she argue. She should work for the UN.
I have taken two days off this week and we shall be having a chat.

Change the WiFi password every day. New password can only be earned by showering and putting away laundry.

Have you tried praise for the ok stuff, eg Thanks for clearing your plate, that helped me? And bribes/rewards? Or asking her for help? It’s a hard battle and she sounds oppositional. I have one of those. Simple rules written down also help. Another route is to focus on one big issue at a time, eg hygiene, and let the rest go for a bit. You want to try for 80-20 positivity, hard though it is. For me this means I tolerate headphones in at all times and grim manners in exchange for homework done and teeth cleaned.

I agree that stopping all privileges will just cause her to kick off more. You can teach her and motivate her with positivity and kindness rather than hard authoritarian removal of everything - so earning rewards rather than taking things away.

I'd start with a chat saying that you realise that home has become an unhappy place for you both and that you both need to make changes so that things can improve. Then agree a way forward so you're not having to think up sanctions on the spot. The phone will be a big thing for her so change from contract to pay as you go and she has to earn her credit eg shower and teeth brushed every day for a week means £10 on her phone, or something! As for the bedroom, do it together with lots of praise. Break the job down eg. Irst let's close the drawers and make the bed. When that's done tidy 5 things and so on.

Just let her get on with it. Throw the clean clothes back into her room. If she breaks anything, don't replace it, give her chores to earn money for replacements and other luxuries. No chores = no phone contract, no internet, no fashion clothes, no party money.

It’s actually quite heartening to hear we are not alone! I can’t live like this, though, things have to change. I have always been relaxed about “ground rules” but think I need to set some as it’s just becoming one big confrontation all the time. Such a stress as she has such a lot going for her, it’s as though she’s determined to hide all her positive qualities underneath several layers of Kevin the Teenager.

Yes, I do praise her for anything positive she does. It’s not enough of a motivator for her, clearly.

@itswonklampshade
I feel the same! I was feeling so low yesterday, thinking it must just be me and I’m a crap mum!
Feeling better after reading everyone’s posts. It can be so hard to be nice to a teenager when they can be so bloody horrible.

YABU to remove privileges and will just shut down communication lines between you. I would pick your battles (who cares what state her room is in, you don't have to go in there if you don't want to), it all sounds pretty normal to me. There are a couple of books that will help you get through the teenage years, you've just got to let it all be water off a ducks back, they get over it in the end.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0050U8BH4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_-WssEbE03BNV2?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003V1WW2O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_xYssEbXQN6G4F?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

My 3 are all in their 20's now. I just think some children find the transition from being a child to a teenager harder than others. So, be kind. I think you need to decide what things are important and what you can let go. I never bothered about messy bedrooms, but they did have to put their washing out. If she puts clean clothes out to wash, just put them back in her room. I would make a stance on personal hygiene, simply because if she doesn't wash, she will lose friends. Teenagers are acutely aware of others' appearance. Have you thought about getting a basket and filling it with toiletries and putting it in her room (shampoo, moisturiser, perfume, deodorant, sanitary towels, nail varnish, etc). It might be stuff that she would like to have, but is embarrassed to ask for/buy for herself. If she doesn't do her homework, then presumably the school will deal with her, if she doesn't read, then does it matter, if she doesn't practice music, then stop her lessons. I think if you keep on at her about eating with her mouth open, she will probably just ignore you. You can get into a downward spiral of constantly nagging, and feeling cross with her and home becomes a battle ground rather than a sanctuary from difficulties she might be experiencing outside the home. Try to be positive, have less material stuff for her to deal with and try and do some nice things with her. Riding is great for teenage girls; it gives them self confidence, a sense of freedom and they learn patience dealing with an animal that doesn't always do what they want them to do! Good luck OP.

She likes riding but it’s expensive - and is the latest in a long line of expensive interests which have all fallen by the wayside when she’s had to put any long-term effort in. Happy for her to go once a week or once a fortnight, but there has to be some give and take if she wants to do it regularly. She gets to a certain (fairly low level tbh) stage of accomplishment where every interest is concerned and then just wants to give up and move onto the next thing. It’s a noticeable pattern.

She’s had a lot to contend with. She’s not got her dad, her gran and died and she now has to share her home and mum with your new partner and half sibling. That’s an enormous amount for a child to go through.

I wouldn’t have removed it all. You need to tackle the root issues behind the behaviour rather than simply punish it.

I agree with that in principle - she’s been sharing me for more than ten years, though, so that part’s not new! I think she is struggling with having lost my Mum, though, we all have been.

With the music, is this something she ever wanted to do, or is it something you wanted her to do? At 12 if she's not going to practice of her own free will there really isn't any point pushing it. She won't make any real progress in the lessons alone and will resent you for forcing her.

To be clear - I’ve stopped her direct debit (so she can earn pocket money rather than just being given it), and I’ve stopped screen time for the day. Considering moving to a PAYG she could take charge of rather than a mobile contract. She still has her friend here, her hobbies, her laptop and all of the many other things she’s lucky enough to have.

Nope - something she wanted to do. As is the case with everything she takes up.

As I asked upthread @itswonkylampshade, do you talk to her about what's going on for her? How she is feeling about things? Your relationship will need to evolve - she's no longer the little girl, but is starting to find her own feet in her own world.

If you're worrying about her mental health, then repeatedly telling her where she is going wrong in your eyes isn't going to make her feel better. I've never yet met a person who changed because they were repeatedly reminded of how awful their behaviour was. They just become angry and resentful instead. Build a better relationship between you both, one based on communication.

OK. It's just I've found with a lot of music lessons it is actually the parents dream that little Sophia plays piano/cello/French horn. Sophia actually had little to no interest in ever playing. Get to 12 and they are less pliable and will no longer do things just because you want to do them and the parents then get very upset about the waste of the lessons/instrument.

My DD at 12 was, there’s no way of putting this nicely, a dirty wee madam. She’s think nothing of not even changing her knickers for three days, or skipping showers. I was suck of nagging her, tried buying nice smellies for the shower etc, nope, nothing worked. In the end, through gritted teeth, I stopped (even though her greasy hair was awful). It lasted a year or so and now she is never out of the bleedin bathroom. I think a few of her pals were equally scuddy but once one started ‘making more effort’ the others followed suit.

I agree that riding is expensive, OP! I do think with children/teenagers it's just a question of giving them an opportunity to try different activities. The fact that she is trying something and moving on, I wouldn't deem a failure or a lack of effort on her part, but just that she hasn't hit upon something that inspires her to want to do more.

As soon as she gets interested in boys (or girls) then she will start washing and cleaning teeth. That's the way it goes with stinky teens.
See if you can develop a bit of selective deafness - just switch right off if you are getting any backchat, then any requests will fall on deaf ears. Like we tell DCs we can't hear them when they are screechingly loud so they adjust their volume accordingly. And it's basically doing grey rock, whick is a favoured coping technique when being abused / gaslighted.
I was blunt with mine - go and hose yourself down, you stink. Usually worked!

When you get into a negative cycle like this another nice thing to do is to get all her baby photos out and go through them with her. Remind each other of the close bond you once had and that cute baby you once had. It could help break the negative cycle. I know ita hard but this is the bit where you need to get your big girl pants on and step into your parenting role. It's up to you to end the negative cycle and remember that this isn't about you... it's hard being a teenager who has already been through a lot.