Talking in your native language, is it acceptable in a group?

[AllDruggedUpWithNowhereToGo]

The other evening I was at an adult education class and there was an issue. So I have a “who was being unreasonable”

Person A and person B were chatting in their own language during the class and person C complained about it.

The thing is we are a very chatty class, and person A claimed racism due to it being a foreign language and that no one else had been named as being a distraction. The tutor shut the issue down quickly and stressed the “distraction” aspect of it, but I got the impression that the “foreign language” aspect was what person C had the real issue with (if it makes a difference the conversation A and B were having was nothing to do with the class we are taking)

I am neither A, B or C but now feel really uncomfortable by the division in the class because of this.

Also I can see both sides of the division. I was raised that to exclude people when you are all part of a group is rude (is this a cultural thing though?), but then if English isn’t your first language and you live in an English speaking country, I imagine it’s nice to be able to chat in your native language.

So who was BU?

AIBU for A&B
AINBU for C

(Also I have name changed, rarely post, but have been here since penis beaker)

Your thread title is a bit misleading, it wasn't a group situation, it was a private chat between two people. And you say everyone chats all the time.

If the group majority all spoke one language and excluded a minority that is rude and exclusionary.

Person C got a small taste of what it likes to be different in this country and they didn't like it. It's clear your sympathies are with C so I suspect you are C, OP.

Actually one of my son's Spanish teachers was French, so he might have been a bit baffled about being taught Spanish with a light French accent.

His A level Spanish teacher is a native speaker.

I've never seen any point in launching into English abroad to talk about people because they almost certainly can understand! This is where the Welsh and Irish speakers have the edge.

I had an OPOL friend when I was a child. Spoke English/Italian to me, German to her mother and Italian to her father. I learned a fair amount of German and could follow the conversation, without any teaching. Couldn't speak a word. Because it turns out, being around other languages is good for your brain, excellent for understanding and interesting.

If British people weren't so xenophobic and arrogant.

*Something I think a lot of English-only speakers don't understand is that each person in your life has a language assigned to them in your brain.

If you've always spoken Swedish (as an example) with your husband, trying to switch to English even in a group environment is SO strange and unnatural. Your personality is nuanced in each language and the way you apply vocabulary is probably slightly different too*

This!!!

Switching to another language literally has nothing to do with people around you. I speak 5 languages fluently.

There are topics I cannot discuss in English because it does not clearly convey the message and even tone I want and can sometimes even seem rude to my ear.

There are jokes that only make sense in another language.

I switch effortlessly and with zero thought between all these languages. I honestly cannot remember ever changing my language to avoid someone or to gossip about someone.

As long as it is a private conversation between two people noone else has a right to eavesdrop and know what people are talking about.

I think it is rude to speak in another language when other people are present.

@NomDeDieu my remark was just prompted by general curiosity because OP has twice now made comments that imply she knew what A & B were talking about and I wondered how.

FWIW I think I would find the situation where people were holding conversations while a class was going on a bit irritating regardless of the language, i.e. the English speakers having a private conversation would irritate me just as much as the non-English speakers. Before or after the lesson or during a break fine in any language.

I think it is rude to speak in another language when other people are present.

Pixxie7 that has to depend on the context though surely?

To begin with what if you can only speak your own language.
Or what about if you know everybody else present can speak the same language even if they are not native speakers.

I think it is probably rude if you know that by speaking a particular language you are excluding someone in the group and you are quite capable of speaking that person's language - see the Welsh example further up the thread.

@Cantuccit I’m really not C nor are my sympathies with her. As I said initially I can see both sides...

I am questioning it due the way I was raised, which is why I’m asking for opinions.

And while I would normally agree about not talking in class... in this class it works, the lesson regularly goes off piste, but it does seem to help with learning/remembering.

I have no idea if this is normal with adult education as this is my first time returning to school.

" I honestly cannot remember ever changing my language to avoid someone or to gossip about someone."

Oh but it definitely happens! I know because I would know when someone else is talking about me in either French, German, Spanish or Italian . Germans are especially bad for it. This assumption that English people (not that I am one, but you'd never know) don't speak other languages is not entirely correct...

As for the language/context thing, sure I get that but equally imo there is never any excuse for talking in a language such that another person who could potentially be involved in the conversation is left sitting there like a lemon. A private conversation with nobody else involved is different. The situation in the OP is ambiguous from this point of view.

@5foot5 the random talking can be epically irritating in class, but it can also lead to different view points and understanding, which is why I believe the tutor allows it.

If the complaint had just been about chat it would have been a non event, but the complaint was about chat in a foreign language.

So she said that it was the foreign language that distracting? If they had the same convo one English she wouldn’t have found it distracting? That’s discrimination.

I always speak in my native language if I get the chance too.

sawdustformypony yes... i live in Italy and in groups of up to 8-10 people we all speak English for the sake of one member of teh friendship group whose Italian is not quite up to conversational standard yet. Of course there are moments when it slips, but to speak the entire time in a language she can't properly understand is rude. Between the rest of us we are most italian or other European heritage

@Waterworks77 glad somebody gets my experience!!

Unless you fluently speak multiple languages (i'm only on 3 to your impressive 5) it's impossible to understand how it works.

It's not about being rude, or having secret conversations, it's literally a million different queues and situations that your brain weighs up and just responds. Or it's habit depending on the person or location or whatever joke you think of!

For example, my husband only has road rage in a specific language, and then it makes us switch to that language without thinking. Or if we hear a song or snippet of tv in a different language, it might cause us to switch if we are talking about it. Between us we speak 5 languages, 3 of them are common, we have 1 language we speak in 90% of the time though.

@SidsWife the complaint was chatting in a foreign language while the tutor was talking.

I’m assuming it was the foreign language part that bothered her as we all chat quietly on and off during the lesson but she only had an issue with A & B.

That said, most of us tend to chat about the actual subject and not just general talk, but I’m also assuming C had no idea what was being discussed.

I think you've misunderstood me @NomDeDieu

friend of mne met her (british) dh in france and their language together was and has always been french. Now that they are in the uk, why should they HAVE to switch to english when french is the langauge they speak everyday at home? No, if their language is French, then it's French. If they invite a non-french speaker round for dinner, then probably switch to English ;)

Another one is a mixed couple who spoke in english as it was their common langauge (none of them are british). Now that they are back living in italy, should they stop speaking english together (even though iatlian is not the other tongue of either of them)? No of course not... they should continue as they were. That's exactly the point I'm making. People create a 'habit' of the language they speak to specific people in and it's very hard to change. I have a friend that speaks English but we ALWAYS speak Italian together because we did when we started becoming friends, speaking English together is just plain weird.

I did a French degree and on my year abroad lived and socialised with a mixture of French, British, American, Spanish and German students. The rule was to speak in the language common to all, which given what we were there for was French. If it was just me and other British/Americans we'd speak English and if I was with the Spanish students I'd practise my Spanish although we would often have to revert to French as my Spanish isn't that good. It was definitely considered rude to have side conversations in languages not everyone understood.

My DH’s best friend has lived in Denmark for the past five years and is now engaged to and has a baby with a Danish woman. He has never learnt Danish, barely knows two words. He has phoned DH upset before because he’s at a party where everyone is speaking Danish and he feels left out . I think he’s rude tbh, insisting everyone in Denmark speaks English because he cba learning their language.

It can be rude to speak in your native language, completely depends on the context. If they were deliberately leaving C out of the conversation then that’s rude, if it was just a private conversation at break time or whatever then it’s not rude.

All you speakers of many languages, the odd slippage or side comment, fine, but this 'i have no control over what language I speak' (road rage or telling off your kids aside ) is just nonsense. If you exclude someone due to language you are being rude, full stop. French is my family language but it's really never an issue to switch to English when we are with guests - or indeed my DH. I absolutely can't get behind this idea we might 'accidentally' switch into French and not notice while in non-French-speaking company!

But it's not about the language being English or not. Speaking a language that not everybody understands in a group setting where no effort is made to translate for the non speaker is rude.

I'm English and I live in Norway. I'm fluent in Norwegian. I wouldn't dream of speaking English in a group setting if someone there didn't speak English. I would also not dream of speaking Norwegian to people I've always spoken Norwegian to if someone present didn't understand it. That's just being polite.

Sure I have people that I usually speak one or the other language too, and it is awkward to switch that language. But I will gladly switch that language to avoid leaving someone out in a social setting. A and B were being very rude.

And yes of course it feels weird to switch from the usual language you speak to someone in, but it is hardly insurmountable if you are both bi/tri-lingual!

Sidswife is someone is speaking one language and someone else is next to you speaking a second language you'll find it is epic levels of distracting. Nothing racist about it, your brain will try to work out both languages at once and you'll end up not hearing anything.

Damntheman you and I are on the same page. So many 'oh you monolinguals wouldn't understand' posts, but some of us 'multilinguals' are definitely not in agreement either! It's basic manners not to exclude people.

leadbetter5 Yes, it would be rude.

Possibly a better example to the situation to Welsh in Wales would be to imagine a group of 8-10 of you speaking one of Italy's regional languages - say (chosen at random) Piedmontese (spoken according to wikipeadia about 70,000). So out of your group, only one doesn't speak it and to avoid being rude, you all resort to speaking Italian. But every time you go out, you invariably find - and the probability increases with the size of the group, that there'll be some people who can't speak or can't understand Piedmontese. What are you going to do ?

I think it is rude to speak in another language when other people are present

What are you supposed to do when you are on holiday in eg Italy then? Keep quiet the whole time?