Talking in your native language, is it acceptable in a group?

[AllDruggedUpWithNowhereToGo]

The other evening I was at an adult education class and there was an issue. So I have a “who was being unreasonable”

Person A and person B were chatting in their own language during the class and person C complained about it.

The thing is we are a very chatty class, and person A claimed racism due to it being a foreign language and that no one else had been named as being a distraction. The tutor shut the issue down quickly and stressed the “distraction” aspect of it, but I got the impression that the “foreign language” aspect was what person C had the real issue with (if it makes a difference the conversation A and B were having was nothing to do with the class we are taking)

I am neither A, B or C but now feel really uncomfortable by the division in the class because of this.

Also I can see both sides of the division. I was raised that to exclude people when you are all part of a group is rude (is this a cultural thing though?), but then if English isn’t your first language and you live in an English speaking country, I imagine it’s nice to be able to chat in your native language.

So who was BU?

AIBU for A&B
AINBU for C

(Also I have name changed, rarely post, but have been here since penis beaker)

I think if you’re in a group situation you should speak the common language.

If it's an English class then teacher should maybe make it a rule that everyone speaks English so that they can all improve

This. I teach English (not EAL) in a school with a large number of students for whom English is a second or third language but in my classroom, the rule is English only and I get quite narky with students who lapse into their native language during, eg, paired discussion.

Oh I feel quite strongly about this. I lived abroad and whilst I spoke the other language fluently I sometimes had a conversation with my friend who was also English. we would be having a regular conversation whilst others around were having their own conversations then suddenly we'd get 'Spanish please, it's rude to speak in English'. It would drive me crazy, me and my friend felt like idiots speaking to each other in our non-native language. We would speak spanish if others were listening or wanting to join in though.

I work in a team of mixed languages and have always defended people speaking together in their own languages but some of the managers have been very against this in the past. Only really those who don't speak other languages themselves though who don't see it like I do.

If they were only talking to one another, C was disagreeable, troublemaking and possibly racist. If they were talking in a group in a way that pointedly excluded C, they were rude.

"Only really those who don't speak other languages themselves though who don't see it like I do."

I'm bilingual and pretty fluent in a third language, understand a further two. I still think it's rude when there are other people present. As a child I remember getting lifts home in a car with a family that chattered to themselves the whole way in another language, I couldn't understand a word and so just sat there mute. Even at aged 7 or 8 (and from a very multilingual environment) I thought that was amazingly rude.

To answer a few question, yes the teacher was actively teaching (talking) at the time. However we all kinda have conversations during class, but being in English we can all dip in and out of any conversation currently
happening within earshot, and they frequently enough to be mentioned become a class wide conversation.

C sits closest to A & B but at kitty corner with her back towards them. C is fairly chatty and outspoken... but the teacher encourages chattiness as it helps us remember what we are learning (most group conversations do start with what we are actually learning)

I was once hosting a group from my company’s Welsh office to lunch. There were eight of them and me at the table and they spoke in Welsh for the entire duration of the lunch. Not one word of English was spoken by them. If I tried to engage them in conversation I got a one word reply before they turned back to their fellow countrymen/women and reverted to Welsh. Now that’s fucking rude.

But is it an English language class? Or an art class?

The other day an American friend taught me the meaning of kitty corner and I think this is the first time I’ve ever seen it used!

Also both are fluent in English, and have lived in the UK for 10 years+

I have only spoken with A who I thought had an odd accent, but I assumed they were English born but had traveled/lived abroad as their English is superb

A and B may have been in the wrong (if deliberately excluding, or talking behind people's backs or whatever), or not, but C was definitely in the wrong no matter what.

@BlackCatSleeping Not English or art, I have always used kitty corner for the opposite diagonal position... is it American?

A private conversation is fine.
When you are sitting together with others, not.
If this really was only a discussion between the two of them, I see no problem.
I would like to challenge the English speakers to imagine they're in Netherlands in a class and they're talking to another English person in Dutch, even if it's about the weather or asking them to pass them a pencil or notes.

@bridgetreilly why was C in the wrong no matter what?

A&B weren’t talking about anyone in the class, just general chat, the same as all of us do with the people we sit close to

No talking should be happening during teaching. This would drive me crazy. We currently have some issues with talking in lectures and it's simply because some people only need to show up to pass and others need to pass the assessments set.

It totally depends whether person C just complained about them chatting or complained about them chatting in (insert language here).

I think it's a bit rude if there are other people present in a group situation (social or learning/work) as it leaves others unable to join in or contribute.

@EerieSilence but if you don’t understand what is being said how do you know if it a private conversation?

This is what I suspect was the original problem. But it has been perceived as a racist attack.

I would like to think in the reverse situation I would speak in the language of the rest of the group, but never having been in that situation I am looking for insight.

I think kitty corner is North American. It’s such a nice phrase though.

I think it’s hard to judge your situation. There is no right or wrong answer. It depends on the individual situation and feelings of the people there.

@NearlyGranny she complained about them chatting in a foreign language as it was distracting. (Hence the racism accusation)

I think if you’re in a group situation you should speak the common language.

Which normally suits the Brits because they don't learn other languages and their ignorance therefore helps them. The same courtesy is almost never extended. I was once in a mixed group of nationalities in a third country. We worked out that we had more native French speakers than any other language and all but one person spoke decent French. I offered to translate for the non-speaker, and I did.

She was really annoyed and the day after told me I was "showing off". You really can't win with some British people. Everyone else manages to speak other languages, speak more than one in a group and muddle through. She just wanted people to speak English. Including the few who didn't actually speak it.

Well, of course it was a private conversation. If they meant it to be a public conversation, they wouldn't have spoken in a language they knew that others didn't understand.

Because it's none of C's business. If the teacher is distracted or thinks it's causing a problem, it's up to them to deal with it. C doesn't have any right to know what A and B are talking about. And in this situation, it's almost certainly racist.

Also, I've never heard 'kitty corner' before, but I have heard 'catty corner' fairly often, mostly but not exclusively, from Americans.

Happens all the time here in the staff room. I have colleagues from absolutely everywhere. They happily chat in their own language but would, without any problem, switch to English if I was looking to join the conversation. No issue here.

ive had this.a friend works with two other woman who often speak together in their native language and she feels left out and hates going into work.what should she do.because she cant tell her boss because the two woman would know its her and then not want to talk to her anyway!
but we have norwegian family and we would often be talking in the lounge and they would often switch to norwegain and we thought nothing of it,i guess because we know them and its nothing malicious.(plus it was often to argue with eachother haha)

I spent some time last year in the most language-rich country on the face of the earth (about 300 000 pop and 200+ indigenous languages, plus English and French, the languages of education from age 8+). Everyone bent over backwards to be inclusive of me as a foreigner and when people were chatting around me in other languages, even strangers in a minibus or riding in the back of a truck with me would break off to keep me up to speed with what was being discussed. But I guess everybody there knows what it feels like to be left out - it must happen most days with that many languages. I think empathy is key to this.