to help me understand friend with chronic fatigue

[dairyfairies]

not goady, I just have noone to ask. I have a friend with chronic fatigue. She is talking about nothing else. Every single conversation is about her condition and how she is exhausted. My friend had to give up work recently as she feels too exhausted all the time. I don't want to cut her off as she has been a good friend in the past but the constant, nearly non-stop talking about her condition is wearing me out (no pun intended).

Does anybody have any advice as to handle it? I know it must be hard to feel constantly tired but she has also good phases e.g. she went to Thailand and Spain last year on holiday, is going out/partying regularly... she has a pretty full on social life with meeting friends, going for lunches, shopping. I know it's probably still much harder energy wise for her to do these than for someone without chronic fatigue but it's not all shit at all time. or maybe it is.

It's just the constant harping on about it. whether we meet, talk on the phone or messages. I just cannot hear it anymore.

For context: I have a severely disabled child for which I had to give up work. My life is shit and tough on so many levels - I don't even get 'breaks' like my friend does (I am not jealous btw). just saying it to make the point that my life isn't exactly a bed of roses but I just have accepted it and don't go harping on about it every time we meet up.

I don't want to lose the friendship but I feel I have to withdraw as I just don't know how to handy the talking about her condition anymore.

any advice is welcome (and yes, I know chronic fatigue is real, I know she is not well, but this is not what I am asking).

You said she has a pretty full on social life.

It is an illness that makes you introverted and quite self obsessed - as so many debilitating illnesses do. If you are prevented from living a full life, then the main topic of conversation is your illness.

But I think you could have a word. Explain that you think it would be good for her to talk about other things and give herself a break from thinking about it all the time.

If she won't then inevitably your time with her will reduce. If she has the energy to talk about herself, then she has the energy to talk about something that concerns or interests you for part of the time too. And I say that as someone who suffers from depression that creates chronic fatigue-like symptoms.

What's she like if you talk about other subjects altogether, eg: Trump, the weather, EastEnders, some new jewellery, etc etc?

hal, she is going out, going to parties, dinners, lunches, holidays abroad. She is out a few times a month (she tells me and posts on Facebook as well). It may not be a full social life (and probably done despite her fatigue and not because she is feeling ok). I accept that my own circumstances may cloud my judgement. I should not have called it a full social life, sorry.

I don't think it's reasonable to be a friend who is boring and self-obsessed. It doesn't matter what it's about- illness, your children, your health, your lifestyle, all friendships work better if there's mutual interest and understanding, and that yes, sometimes one thing will dominate for a while, but then that will be over and you can be mutually supporting. It sounds like you have a tough life too, and so ideally she could support you and vice versa, but that's not happening. I do know three people with CFS, one mentions it occasionally if relevant, one is very upbeat but naturally limits what they do energy wise and one is very downbeat and draining and has lost a lot of friends over the past decades due to their self-obsession. People do have a choice. I also think that it helps if you have a place where others will understand easily which is not the case always with CFS and the ones that do better tend to be in support groups/online chats as well as have real life friends as that's a place to put all that discussion where perhaps others (who don't have CFS) might not be as sympathetic or interested in the detail of new treatments. Can you encourage her to reach out to others with the same issue?

The proportion of CFs (cheeky fuckers) with CFS will mirror the proportion of CFs in the general population. Having CFS doesn't absolve you of being a CF.

And- I know some things are not 'over', like chronic illness, but that's why you have to pace those around you and not moan constantly! Or find another outlet for your upset.

I have ME and I don't harp on about it all the time. Yes, it's shit. And it's different for everyone. No doubt it's horrendous for her, but yes, you have your difficulties too. It must be tiring for her to harp on about her illness so much!

If you're doing your best to be an understanding friend and she's not returning the favour (even occasionally) then it's probably best if you withdraw. It's not fair on you.

She’s probably having to rest a lot in between times, she may then struggle to find the energy for basic things.

I do think she should be able to listen to you as well and not make everything about herself.

I have CFS, amongst other disabilities, and so I understand how she feels with how overwhelming it feels, like nothing else matters much because it’s all you can think about every second, of every day. Nothing is ever straightforward with it, and it’s linked to most (almost all probably) decisions I make, whether that’s to go to a friends birthday, or to have my hair cut so it’s easier to cope with etc. I can see how it can become all encompassing in terms of conversation, altho I find I go the other way, I consciously try not to mention it too much in case it bores people, or they judge me, or think ‘it’s not that bad’ if I go out.
I can understand your frustration at this being the only topic of conversation however. As a pp says, if you talk of entirely unrelated stuff, what happens then? I do think part of being a friend is listening to the others struggles but definitely not all the time.

And I don't want to presume anything about her, but if she is getting out and about now and again, and is able to meet up with you from time to time then I'm sure she must have the energy to not talk about herself for half an hour and just focus on you.

Yes, it can make you self focused and a bit selfish at times, but anyone with a bit of insight can see when they need to step outside themselves and focus on a friend for a while.

You don't want to understand her. You want her to stop talking about her condition and give you support. It doesn't sound as though that is going to happen.
She feels because she has a chronic condition that she's at the centre of the support circle. That means she moans to you, and you should moan out to the next layer of the circle.
Your OP has lots of mean-spirited undertones and she might be picking up on them in real life eg she goes out, she has holidays,etc. Either way, it doesn't sound like this friendship is working for either of you.

It takes very little energy to ask a friend how they are coping with life and then simply listen.

If she never does that then that gives a picture of a very one sided friendship.

I don’t harp on, I don’t even tell most people I have it. I might complain on occasion to dh, but if I’m very tired, I don’t have the energy to harp on. If I have the energy to go out and meet a friend I’d rather talk about other things anyway.

I've not read the whole thread so apologies if I've missed something important. After first reading you message I thought, yes you are being unreasonable. After all, isn't that what friendship is for? Being able to share our worries and struggles with people around us? It's not harping on, it's talking through problems and struggles. Just because you choose not to share doesn't mean that no one should. However, reading on I see that you get shot down when you do share and it somehow goes back to being all about her. That's not ok and you aren't unreasonable to feel annoyed. Friendship is a two way street. Supporting each other and sharing with each other is all part of a great friendship. This is obviously not happening. Maybe she isn't aware? Are you in a position to have a talk with her about it and how you are not feeling valued within the friendship? If it's pointed out to her, she might get very defensive, but also might actually reflect that you are right? Sorry this is happening to you x

Hmmm.
Originally you said
she went to Thailand and Spain last year on holiday, is going out/partying regularly... she has a pretty full on social life with meeting friends, going for lunches, shopping

Now your update says
She is out a few times a month (she tells me and posts on Facebook as well). It may not be a full social life

That would be more consistent with CFS. Because say she had a full on social life’s was the surprising part of your initial post and did not fit with CFS. Perhaps you have assumed what she tells you is the tip of an iceberg when really it’s the entire ice cube. She only does those few things each month and the rest of her days are spent recovering and sleeping.

I’m really saddened by the poll results here. Harping on?

I have ME alongside other conditions that cause severe pain. I also have disabled twins who need a lot of care.

The views expressed here are why I try to never talk about it with friends, which really sucks and is so isolating. If she’s recently had to give up work she is probably feeling extremely low.

Going out a couple of times a month isn’t a full social life especially when you also can’t work. I am sure that those outings cost her a lot in terms of recuperation time.

she is going out, going to parties, dinners, lunches, holidays abroad. She is out a few times a month (she tells me and posts on Facebook as well).

Ahh, this isn't a help me understand post it is a join me in judging post.

Chronic Fatigue or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? They are two different things.

She seems like one of "those" chronically ill people who are consumed by their condition. The internet has created a lot of support for illness communities which is great, but it can sometimes be a rabbit hole which people disappear into. There are tons of blogs, forums, accounts that generate "illness content" that are cathartic to many people but they can easily tip over into obsession.

I think she might not even be aware that she's talking about it so much as it's normal within the chronically ill online community for everything to revolve around your health, treatment, spoons, misunderstanding by society etc. Visit the website The Mighty or have a look at blogs like these (nopostergirl.com) and you'll get an impression of what the community is like.

If this isn't your cup of tea then you might need to put some distance between you.

I can understand why you are a bit frustrated OP. It's not that she is ill, it's that she is a bit competitive with it and that your friendship isn't equal because all she wants to do is talk about her own problems and doesn't validate yours.

I think this probably comes from two places.

1: people are not very understanding as a rule about CFS and she's probably had to fight with the medical establishment to get her condition recognised - as well as being dismissed by people she cares about. So she is operating with that in the back of her mind all the time, and constantly trying to self-validate how she is feeling and why.

1. Most people who develop a chronic illness experience losses of friendships, family and relationships with people who don't have the time/interest to deal with someone once they are ill. Not only is this very painful, it also means that she probably doesn't have many people to talk to. I suspect that once you lend her a listening ear, it's like a high pressure hosepipe going off. She struggles to stop herself from talking about it all the time, because talking to you about her condition is one of her only outlets.

That doesn't make it OK though. I think she needs to find a balance between talking about her condition but not allowing it to dominate the conversation to the exclusion of everything else.

If the friendship is strong enough, it might be worth just be honest with her about how you feel. I'm sure you aren't asking her to never mention her condition, but you do want the discussion to be a bit more 50/50.

I can’t stand people who harp on about their illnesses. When I ask how you are by all means tell me you’re feeling shit, tired whatever. Then move on. It’s draining.
With a disabled child to look after Op I can understand why this would stick in your craw. She sounds selfish and negative, sorry.

(I’m in no way dissing CFS sufferers - just people who go on and on and on about it!)

When I ask how you are by all means tell me you’re feeling shit, tired whatever. Then move on. It’s draining.

Moving on is hard when you don’t have anything to move on to. When you’re in the middle of an illness like that, it’s often consumes your life. This is why you end up losing friends who don’t get that.

It might become more equitable if you can both have a moan.

Agree with this. I have friends who have been through some pretty rough times (as have I), but we always tried to ensure that everyone got equal "moaning time". Regardless of relative 'severity'. Although, occasionally some situation could trump this, allowing one person to take all the moaning time on that particular occasion.

Moving on is hard when you don’t have anything to move on to. When you’re in the middle of an illness like that, it’s often consumes your life. This is why you end up losing friends who don’t get that.

I know what it is to lose friends. My disabled child cost me my job, my marriage and most of my friends. I still don't engage in competitive miseryness whenever I see one of the few friends who is left over.

I’m really saddened by the poll results here. Harping on?

Maybe I did not put it very eloquently but that is all she is taking about. We meet up most weeks, talk a couple of times on the phone/message every week. It's not that I talk to her once in a blue moon. I hear about it in gear details several times a week.