I am a witness to bullying

[STANTER]

And I don't know what to do. Currently sat at work listening to everyone bitch about a lovely woman that I work with, and it's not called for. It's cruel and very clearly stems from jealousy. I've started documenting everything but don't really know what to do. How do I raise this without coming across as a shit stirrer? It's awful to listen to and even the managers sit and listen to it without saying anything. Help...

How dare you.

It’s not nice having accusations of behaving in a certain way, is it? But like how you’ve just accused all HR staff of behaving in an unsupportive or underhand way. I’m quite happy to ‘dare’, ta very much. 😁

It’s not nice having accusations of behaving in a certain way, is it? But like how you’ve just accused all HR staff of behaving in an unsupportive or underhand way. I’m quite happy to ‘dare’, ta very much
I am thrilled you had a good experience with HR. Not everyone does.
From a professional anti bullying activist.
Why Human Resources Don't Support Targets of Bullying
From dealing with thousands of cases in which this happens - albeit a self-selecting audience which may not scale up nationally - Tim Field identified the following reasons why Human Resources don't support targets of bullying:

1. Human Resources (HR) people are not trained in dealing with bullying - it's not in their textbooks, not in their training, and their professional body in the UK (CIPD) has not given the issue the attention it needs.
2. The HR profession seems to attract a number of people who are not people-focused and thus not good at dealing with people problems.
3. HR is not there for employees. The role of HR is to keep the employer out of court.
4. The majority of HR people are female, and females seem particularly susceptible to charm, which is one of the bully's main weapons of deception.
5. By the time HR get to hear of the bullying they are faced with an articulate, plausible, convincing, charming "bully" and a gibbering wreck of a "target" who is traumatised and thus unconvincing, inarticulate, incoherent, obsessed, apparently paranoid, tearful, distressed and highly emotional. By this time the bully has already convinced HR that the target has a "mental health problem", is a liability to the organisation, and needs to be got rid of.
6. When it's one word against another with no witnesses, HR take the word of the senior employee (almost always the bully).
7. There's no law against bullying so there's no case to answer.
8. The employer doesn't have an anti-bullying policy so it's not a disciplinary issue.
9. The employer does have an anti-bullying policy but it's just words on paper
10. The bully is a tough dynamic manager who gets the job done and the high turnover of staff in the bully's department is because they're all wimps who can't meet the demanding standards of performance demanded by this exemplary manager. Yawn.
11. If HR recognise they have a bully, they're not going to admit it because to do so is tantamount to admitting liability for this - and previous - cases.
12. HR are not going to admit that they've made a mistake recruiting an incompetent individual who bullies to hide his or her inadequacies.
13. When push comes to shove, HR do what they are told to do by management, regardless of the rights and wrongs.
14. HR are sometimes an outsourced and contracterised profession with little influence.
15. The constant change, reorganisation, restructuring, downsizing, outsourcing, contracterisation etc mean that there is no continuity in treatment of staff and thus the bully is able to hide the fact that he or she has a history of conflict with employees.
16. Over the last few years employers have been burdened with numerous legislative changes (working time, data privacy, parental leave, etc) and have no desire, resources, time or energy to deal with issues for which there is no legal requirement.
17. Bullying cases are so long and complex (a situation the bully fosters) that most HR (and most people) don't have the time, energy or resources to unpick the case.
18. HR lack the training and insight to undertake a successful investigation.
19. Where HR want to investigate they are sometimes overruled.
20. HR (and management) are frightened of the serial bully too - and sometimes more frightened than the employees.

From dealing with thousands of cases in which this happens - albeit a self-selecting audience which may not scale up nationally

So, not a true representation, then.

Yes the self selecting audience, the victims of bullying. Not nationally yet thousands of cases. I saw the below points used over and over in companies by HR and management to brush it under the carpet. They might hear bully vs victim out usually in the same room but ultimately their goal is damage limitation.
11) If HR recognise they have a bully, they're not going to admit it because to do so is tantamount to admitting liability for this - and previous - cases.
12) HR are not going to admit that they've made a mistake recruiting an incompetent individual who bullies to hide his or her inadequacies.
13) When push comes to shove, HR do what they are told to do by management, regardless of the rights and wrongs.

If the managers are doing it, you have no chance of making a change.
Complaining to HR will be whistleblowing, and you know what happens to people who do that, don't you?
They get pushed out.
Have to agree with @EmeraldShamrock on the points above.
Look for another job.
It's not right, it is all shades of wrong, but unfortunately I am speaking from experience.

Use a voice activated dictaphone-worked for me in A4e.

Could you speak directly to the managers who are listening to the horrible remarks being made?

Maybe ask for a 121 and just say, you don't want to cause trouble but you feel very uncomfortable about what's being said about xxx, and let them know she is aware of it. Hopefully the manager will feel very embarrassed and actually step up and act like a manager and do something about it.

Xxx

Do any of the bullies have their eye on promotion? Have a quiet aside word to say you have noticed the unpleasantness and it is not good for the work environment plus it is slipping over in to bullying and you would hate for her file to be marked as a bully as it is such an unprofessional behaviour and could impact career in the future - this did work in one case I was witness to in a similar way.

Speak to the managers that have also witnessed it, in same vein are they not concerned that their team is acting so unprofessionally and if there is talk of bullying and nothing was done to curb it.

@bluetrews25 thankfully they can't touch me. I don't work for them. And I don't care what they think of me. Genuinely. They impact on me and my career not one jot!

@STANTER I am glad they can't touch you. I was just making the point HR can make life unpleasant for employees.
Next time they start I'd ask why are they being so mean, do they think it is okay to be so rude, then I'd report the issue.

Don't they say that bullying exists because of bystanders? People who know but don't act, so bullies feels entitled. I would take your manager apart and say you don't feel comfortable. Maybe they feel the same but don't know how to deal with it. They may feel supported if someone in the team is there for them.