To not find 'guys' an offensive term?

[DrSheldonCooperPHD]

We have a new manager at work. Our team is 20 people (12 women and 8 men).

New manager held a mini informal meeting this morning, all very nice and very chatty. At the end he said something along the lines of 'thanks guys, great meeting' and one of the women in the team said 'excuse me? guys? That's extremely offensive to the majority of the team who are female!' And walked out of the meeting room.
The MD was also in the room and he and new manager left for another meeting shortly after so I've no idea what happened (if anything) after.

Would this offend you? It didn't even really register with me until she piped up. Everyone seemed very bemused by it all.

I find it offensive due to American cultural imperialism but I realise I have unpopular views in wanting to retain British English in Britain.

Well, apparently it predates the Americal usage here and originally meant 'scruffbags' (as in Guy Fawkes). So we can probably blame the Italians for Guido (or the German')

I like 'guys' and use it for everyone.

@CecilyP - What would you have preferred he said,Brefugee?
"everyone"? "team"? I prefer "everyone" out of those two.

So all you folk who are using "guys" for everyone. If someone discreetly and tactfully took you aside and said "please don't, I'm not a guy" what would you do?

Because in the OPs scenario it was handled badly. So let's assume it was handled better, what would you say then? Carry on using "guys" just to wind this one up? or because you don't want to change? How about thinking of something better that is inclusive of everyone in the group?

Also if you work in the Public Sector or a company that is mindful of people's preferred pronouns, how would you feel about "guys" being on a list of terms not to be used because of the possibility of misgendering someone? (yeah, i realise that is a challenge to be accepted for some people so it's a bit of a leading question - this is not supposed to be a bun fight)

FWIW: i have two DD and neither of them likes the term and challenge it.

I think "Guys" is used as a fairly neutral gender term in the workplace and I think it's quite a nice term.

What would people prefer then?

You can't please everyone and someone is always going to be offended, so only bow the more confident or vocal? That's not how 'inclusive' works (or it would be 'OK then, Xi's and Xe's - plural and singular... and neither...')

I personally find 'folk' makes my teeth itch.

If he's a new addition, I wonder if she applied for the same role...

I say guys even if I'm talking to all women

‘This guy came up to me’ - clearly a man.

Guys is not gender neutral except for the fact that women have been content to be crowbarred into the word. The clue is always: would men put up with the reverse ? Clearly not. Never in a million years.

It doesn’t offend me but I can see exactly what’s going on. I’m not asking other women to be offended. But perhaps to contemplate why this is ok when Ladies for all is clearly not.

Working in a secondary school, I'll say' excuse me guys' if a group of kids are blocking my route/lab/lift etc.but TBF there will be a pretty even mix of boys & girls hovering around - IMO he could have chosen a better term, maybe 'everyone' to a group with a majority of adult women, plus it doesn't sound professional, regardless if it was informal.

My old boss used to call us "Troops".

I wouldn't have even noticed being referred to as "guys".

I wouldn't call anyone out publicly for using guys, but I might have a quiet word that it isn't as inclusive as might be first thought, for all the reasons given by PP.

I'm a manager and I use "everyone", "people" (occasionally ("peeps" for short) or "team" interchangeably when addressing them as a group.

I don't find it offensive, but it is indicative of default male. You wouldn't say 'girls' if the room was majority male, so why is it OK to say 'guys' for women? Because women are supposed to just accept that when we use a male word, we should accept it as meaning both of us - even though the usage is historical, and because in the past, women wouldn't have been doing that role (eg chairman).

Personally I wouldn't use it, because there are plenty of alternatives that don't hark back to times of complete male dominance of the public sphere.

Guys to me is a gender-neutral term

She just outed herself as a massive twat. I'm sure she thought she was all big and important by making this a point in front of everyone but she didnt.

She sounds like a bit of a wankbadger.

Totally OTT. She sounds like an idiot.

The attitudes of some women, like her and the posters on here who are mortally offended by something so silly, do nothing to promote women and actually make them look stupid and petty.

Yes, everyone works and couldn’t possibly offend anyone. Though guys works better when trying to attract the attention of a large group talking amongst themselves. If someone asked politely, I would make the effort not to.

Also if you work in the Public Sector or a company that is mindful of people's preferred pronouns, how would you feel about "guys" being on a list of terms not to be used because of the possibility of misgendering someone?

I’d feel it was time for me to retire! As my name has a unisex abbreviation, I sometimes get phone calls saying, oh I thought you were a man. I have never taken offence.

Guy isn’t gender neutral but guys is; It’s just how language develops.

Guys is gender neutral. I know some people don't believe it is, however, language is not based on individual opinions.

I would simply send out the dictionary definition of guys.

There isn't a universally accepted completely neutral alternative that is professional but has a friendly informal edge to it. "Guys" is at the better end of the market.

Words like "team" are too corporate and collective. "Colleagues" on signs at ASDA make me twitch as it suggests a close working relationship rather than the context of staff where it is used.

Feminine words like "girls" and "ladies" can be seen as trivialising. While I'm happy with "girls" informally such as a "girls' night out" I would feel that my life and professional experience is not being recognised in a professional context.

"Folk" is pretty neutral but not widely used. Kind of has a historical/ traditional edge to it.

"Guys" being wrong is more a matter of taste than genuinely offensive, and she's made herself look a total, utter tit with her flounce.

Guys is fine.... gives a hint of camaraderie which words like everyone doesn't.

But perhaps to contemplate why this is ok when Ladies for all is clearly not.

But some women find ladies offensive and remonstrate, “we’re women!”. However, I don’t think it sounds right to address an all female group as women, whereas it is fine to address a male group as men.

Comrades?

Thanks again for your thoughts, it's interesting to see everyone's points of view. I have not spoken to him about it because in now others already have.
Hopefully he can take it on board and we can all learn from this to be more considerate.

There's definitely more to this though, new manager has arranged a time this week to catch up with the team to talk 1:1 about their concerns, ideas, aspirations and how he wants to make sure he supports career progression where it is wanted and she made a huge sigh noise and said it was a waste of her time.

I really think he's got good intentions so it's a shame and I hope she doesn't put him off what he's trying to do.