To not sleep train my baby

[Bizawit]

My baby has just turned 8 months. She’s not a great napper. We have a pretty regular bedtime routine (bath, change, pjs, story etc.) that ends with me feeding and cuddling her to sleep. We co-sleep. She’s mostly ok at night. She wakes up sometimes to feed but then settles back to sleep. The time between around 7.30 (when I put her to bed) until I’m ready to sleep is a nightmare though. She wakes up constantly and cries, and I have to come get in bed and feed her back to sleep again. She only really settles when I’m ready for bed myself and I fall asleep next to her.

I’m so exhausted hearing of all the other mums sleep training their babies. Apparently these babies all sleep through the night. They are put in a cot with the lights out and they settled themselves to sleep! They take a nap at the same time everyday and sleep for two hours in a go! Apparently the research says that sleep training is fine - beneficial evening. Apparently it is healthier for my baby to get more sleep and everyone will be happier if I just leave her to cry until she learns to sleep.

I cannot bear the idea of abandoning my baby to cry until she gives up and falls asleep. I just can’t get my head around the idea that this is what I am supposed to do to be a good mum. AIBU?

@Elmo311 This is exactly the kind of story that I hear that’s making me feel this way. It probably sounds stupid , but you make it sound so easy and now your children sleep 7-7, and you say they are happier! And yet the thought of doing that to my baby seems so violent to my parental instincts. I just feel so lost with it.

@Bizawit but a lot of parenthood is trial and error!

I am 6 years deep and if there’s one thing I know it’s that I have to try things with my sons to see if they work. Somethings do and others don’t.

Your child is not likely to be scarred by sleep training. If anything, everyone will be more rested and peaceful if it’s a success!

Can I also say that “trauma” is maybe overstating it slightly and is possibly what is stopping you from trying it.

My son was upset the first couple of nights but there was no trauma and he’s certainly not traumatised.

Also, Sleep Scotland (a charity I’m sure) advises that you should go back in and sit with them but not touching them. I used to go in and sit in the darkness with my back to the cot after putting dummy back in. Your presence is often enough to calm them.

I also used to Potter around upstairs so he knew I was there but not necessarily in the room.

@meredithgrey1 that all make total sense to me. Sorry you had such a hard time with PND and all. Can definitely relate to your experience in many ways.

@arethereanyleftatall mum, is that you? I think your approach seems sensible. I know my mum did the same and I was a good sleeper, don’t think she traumatised me nor am I suffering the ill effects of her bedtime routine 35 years later 😂

@arethereanyleftatall my baby cries to communicate with me when she wants/ needs something. It’s grating of course, but manageable. What I mean is, I can’t hear those cries and ignore them/ not respond to her needs/ demands. I don’t feel that I would be able to have a cup of tea while she cried for 5 minutes- during which time she would get increasingly louder and more distressed..

Look, you can parent how you like. No one is in your bedroom at night. You can lie to others. But if I didn’t get a single evening to myself ever I would go a bit mad.
I never sleep trained. I breast fed two kids to over a year. And very very gently we moved from Co sleeping to the cot, to falling asleep independently. So yes in that sense I ‘sleep trained.’ But if you keep doing the same things and expect her to work things out for herself magically then that may or may not happen. There are many many toddlers I know still bf-ing and waking up multiple times at night.
Babies don’t need to learn to ‘self soothe’ but it’s a useful skill to learn, like many others, to connect their sleep cycle.

I can tell you what I used. I used the No Cry Sleep Solution but modified it for each child. But basically I went from Co sleeping and feeding to sleep as tiny babies. Then at around 8 months, I wouldn’t let them sleep on the boob, post feed, a story, then resettle with a few pats (or as many as they needed) in my bed.
If they woke up, I stopped feeding before 4 am. Would pat and cuddle and co sleep but no feeds. I kept a food diary to make myself feel better about nutrition.

Then started more or less sleeping through in my bed at this point with the 4 am feed.
Then I moved them to a cot in my room very slowly. I would hold them in the cot and pat them at first. And I still fed at 4 am but I would put back in the cot and hold them till they fell asleep.
Once they were secure in the cot and only having the 4 am feed, I turned my attention back to how they fell asleep.
At this point I was feeding, then putting in the cot and then patting. I slowly reduced the pats to just a hand on the back and then to sitting there and slowly moving back.
Eventually they could both fall asleep (DS2 got to this point earlier than DS1) after bath, feed and being left alone. And when they woke at night would need a quick pat or nothing at all.
At THAT stage I weaned off the 4 am milk. And then finally moved them to their own rooms.
It was gradual, it wasn’t easy, it involved minimal tears and I slowly modified their behaviour patterns keeping a long term end goal in mind.
So your instincts not to leave her to cry seem sound but I am not entirely convinced by the ‘this is how it is and either I sleep trained brutally or there is no way to change’ approach.

@Bizawit

You don’t want to do it so don’t do it. I don’t know what the point of this thread is tbh. People have told you their stories on my they did do it for perfectly valid reasons and you’re sticking with your original assertion that it’s not good for your baby or you.

So don’t do it 🤷🏻‍♀️

My son was upset the first couple of nights but there was no trauma and he’s certainly not traumatised

@lostinadream I didn’t mean to suggest your son is traumatised...

I know that I would find it traumatic to leave my baby to cry though...

The one long term benefit of this has been that when we say ok it’s bedtime no one whinges, they are both looking forward to the end of the day and the bedtime routine. Also, we have almost never had the 3/4 am wake up to wander into our room and so on. Once they transitioned into their room I made it clear they stayed there. If they needed me there was the monitor and they could ask for help and I would come.
For me sleep training is about introduce good long term habits. (As with anything else, manners, table manners, etc. A 13 month old cannot be expected to have the table manners of a five year old but it doesn’t mean you don’t start teaching them the basics from the start. I approached the whole sleep thing like that). I am not a great parent- my two have been utterly awful today and I am fed up but the sleep thing is one area that give or take I think we managed reasonably well.

@lostinadream I’m interested to hear different opinions and experiences because I’m struggling with the Conflicting evidence and advice..

@Bizawit I do understand why you wouldn't want to leave your LO to cry it out. And you don't have to, I'm sure there are other ways you can get round this, even if it is just time.

But for me I couldn't handle the lack of sleep anymore, and I would go into DS and as soon as I'd pick him up he would sleep again, I'd put him down and he'd cry. It was not sustainable long term. I dealt with it for months and the only thing that changed his sleep was to let him cry for short bursts of time.
We would go in and check and sush him / put hand on his back but we wouldn't pick him up or speak to him.
Hearing him cry was really tough, I'm not going to lie. But now he's 20 months old and we've had a year of him sleeping though, so personally I don't regret it.
Plus as I said, I have the added pressure of another LO so it was really needed that he would self settle.

We didn't sleep train. They slept through no problem but often wanted a later bedtime than what would be considered normal for a child. As soon as they were moved to a bed age 3, they were lights out at what's considered a normal children's bedtime and staying in their beds till morning. If you're happy don't worry about if

@HuloBeraal thank you that’s really helpful info/ advice... especially about proactive methods to incourage her back into a cot...

In the West we’re obsessed with babies sleep. If your baby cries then give them cuddles and or milk - that’s all there is to it. Get as many cuddles in now because they soon grow up!

We didn't sleep train, I adjusted and met her needs when she cried. She wouldn't sleep without me for ages and to be honest she still clambers in at 3am some nights for a cuddle and I love it, she is almost four now and it's very precious time to me, sleepy middle of the night cuddles. She spends time at both her dad's and my parents' during the week and has been at a child minder's for 2.5 years so she's not at all clingy. Have to agree with @runrabbitrunrunrun

Oh we also don't have a set bedtime. We wake up at the same time every day during the week but she goes to bed when she's ready to and we have no bedtime shenanigans and some parents I know are horrified by this but it works so well for us

Babies cry to express a need. By not responding to their cry, you are failing to meet their needs. Babies are not manipulative. CIO/CC methods can be damaging due to the cortisol flooding their system. We breastfeed on demand and cosleep; as a result we have two happy, healthy little girls. We may not all sleep throug every night, but their needs are met, which is the most important thing to me.

Thanks @Elmo311 makes a lot of sense. I do think it would be soo good for my baby to sleep 7-7 straight.

I do think I might need to start being more proactive about some of this stuff. Maybe starting with some of the methods PP have suggested that don’t involve CIO.

Babies do not stop needing us at night. I believe in the family bed, night time parenting and waiting until they are ready to sleep on their own.

Don't sleep train, as you clearly do not want to do so. It doesn't matter what other parents do, you have to do what is right for you and your babies.

Just be reassured that you will not have an 18yo in your bed, at some point between 12 months and 6 years your child will be sleeping in their own bed.

They grow up so fast, do what suits your family. Good luck.

I dont think the research is reliable either way to be honest. If you sleep train you have people like the earlier poster saying *
Nope. It’s horrid and cruel. They can’t talk, move properly and are totally vulnerable.
Sleep trained babies still wake up but they don’t bother crying anymore because they know that no one will come for them.* which I dont think is true, in my experience they learn that night time is for sleeping but still cry if they have a nightmare or are ill and we still respond.

We sleep trained because my co sleeping breastfed baby was still waking to feed every 90 min at 7 months, neither of us were sleeping to the point where it was affecting my mental and physical health and not leaving the house as I was so tired, and she wasn't eating in the day because she got all her nutrition at night. And none of the gentle things I tried eg little ones program, worked. It was total habit and one that I needed to break for everyone's sake. But if you're ok with your situation then its fine. You can always review it if you arent coping later or it gets worse. And one thing when you sleep train is you have to be consistent, and it is hard when they are crying (even when you do a gentler method like we did and are in the room with them and soothing them in their own bed). My husband did most of it because even though I knew it was for the best for us, I wasnt strong enough to do it. I cried as well. If you let them cry for a while then go and get them you've just ended up reinforcing their bad habits so you need to be 100pc sure before you start that you're able to follow through

Do what suits you.
But your baby does actually sleep once you get into bed. I voted YABU because you do not know what it is like to get very little sleep and are congratulating yourself on not being like those horrid mothers who had to do something so that they could get some bloody sleep.

@Babieseverywhere I know quite a few mums who co sleep with kids older than 6. That is up to them. But it is not true that all kids end up sleeping in their own bed at 6.

voted YABU because you do not know what it is like to get very little sleep.

Ummm yeh.,you can stick that where the sun don’t shine .

I have always felt self settling is developmental and forcing it is pretty pointless. Some babies will respond to sleep training because they are developmentally ready, for others (like my dd1) it just won't work until much much later. It's like forcing a child to crawl, it's not going to happen until they've worked it out for themselves. And people who have successfully sleep trained and spout it's virtues have never had a high needs baby who will make themselves sick after 20 seconds of being put down. Do what you and your baby need and forget everyone else