To not sleep train my baby

[Bizawit]

My baby has just turned 8 months. She’s not a great napper. We have a pretty regular bedtime routine (bath, change, pjs, story etc.) that ends with me feeding and cuddling her to sleep. We co-sleep. She’s mostly ok at night. She wakes up sometimes to feed but then settles back to sleep. The time between around 7.30 (when I put her to bed) until I’m ready to sleep is a nightmare though. She wakes up constantly and cries, and I have to come get in bed and feed her back to sleep again. She only really settles when I’m ready for bed myself and I fall asleep next to her.

I’m so exhausted hearing of all the other mums sleep training their babies. Apparently these babies all sleep through the night. They are put in a cot with the lights out and they settled themselves to sleep! They take a nap at the same time everyday and sleep for two hours in a go! Apparently the research says that sleep training is fine - beneficial evening. Apparently it is healthier for my baby to get more sleep and everyone will be happier if I just leave her to cry until she learns to sleep.

I cannot bear the idea of abandoning my baby to cry until she gives up and falls asleep. I just can’t get my head around the idea that this is what I am supposed to do to be a good mum. AIBU?

Teaching your baby that you are there for them is important. You can't go back and undo teaching them to "sleep on their own" which means no one is there for them when they need them.

It's very hard having babies and smell children. There is no way around that, no matter what you read in a book. They're only little once, and the good news is that it doesn't last forever -- even if you never "sleep train" they all sleep eventually.

Thanks @Yellowandpurple78 that makes a lot of sense.

@user1493413286 I know- that’s the issue. But the problem is she’s exhausted by around 7.30 and ready to sleep so I really don’t want to keep her up- it seems unfair. I’m kind of hoping she’ll learn that in the beginning of the night I’m not always there, but later I join her, but maybe that’s unrealistic. Not sure what others who co-sleep do..?

All babies are different OP and you can't and shouldnt adopt a 'one size fits all' approach. I never sleep trained either of mine and they both liked to fall asleep with me and that was fine. It sorted itself out as they got a bit older and was no problem. I don't believe it leaving babies to cry.

Mine are 16 and 13 now so it's all a distant memory but don't let anyone who's been a parent for 2 minutes tell you you're getting it all wrong - do what suits you and your baby.

Second everything Mycat says. If everything you read says you mustn't feed to sleep, again you're reading the wrong stuff! Feeding to sleep is the perfect way to get them back to sleep super quickly. So it allows you to accept their wakings rather than see them as a problem or fight them. I've found that acceptance made the biggest difference for us both!

@BroomstickOfLove that’s so true - makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

@shamazing thank you. It’s good to be reassured fro parents with older children that she will learn to sleep eventually!

I wouldn't ever leave mine to cry so can understand you not wanting to do that. But it sounds like you're both over tired. You do need to make more of a routine and I do believe she would be happier with more sleep. I couldn't cope with all that up and down all evening. I always had school work to do in the evening so needed them to be in bed and asleep.

I held my baby for almost every nap until he was about 10 months old when I went back to work. He slept in small chunks overnight (and to be fair preferred the space of his own cot so I did get a bit of sleep) and I fed him back to sleep every time.

We did night wean at 10 months, but I continued feeding on demand during the day, and to sleep every night until he was 18 months old when we stopped breastfeeding. We never let him CIO, never sleep trained.

He's now 2, and sleeps reliably 8-7 at night, and 12-2 in the day.

You're not doing anything wrong, you know your baby best, and if you're happy with your routine you should stick with it. But - you are important too. If you're not happy with your routine it is ok to change it. If you're so sleep deprived you can barely function, there is no harm in working out other ways to get some rest.

Dd1 (2.5) was in a great routine. Snack bath bed and asleep for 7.30pm every night no fuss no waking up.. Until I had dd2. She refuses to sleep in her room at all now. And with a newborn and a toddler we have given in and she's in beside us... For now. When things settle ill retackle her bedtime again. But I agree I couldn't sleep train and listen to her cry herself to sleep.

DH sleep trained our four, and whilst I didn't agree with it, so he did it alone, it did work. Ten years later, all of our kids go to bed on their own. They often migrate into our bed for cuddles during the night from about 3am onwards, and we would never begrudge them (and actually we all like the mass cuddles) but DH and I get that bed time and few precious hours of adult time before we go to bed. (As we explain to the kids, bedtime isn't just for them). We are a very tactile family, and I can assure you that no one has suffered from sleep training.

I worked for 6 years with new mums and babies and this was such a hot topic. I have seen mothers twist themselves inside out to meet expectations of others or self applied pressures trying to keep up with the Joneses.

It's a phase and in a few years time no one will give a shiny shit how your baby slept. Including your baby.

Unless you are an attachment parent. But those parents boil my piss. Judgemental twats

Just do whatever suits you and your baby.
This doesn't just apply to sleeping. It applies to all areas of parenting.

Gosh @Aureum that sounds so tough for you. I guess we just have to remember that it won’t last forever !

Sleep training doesn't have to mean torturing anyone. I gave my kids water at night instead of milk when they woke up and whilst they definately protested the first time, it really didn't take long for them to not bother trying and sleep was not long around the corner. Ds went from waking an innumerable number of times to being a bloody amazing sleeper. Still is now. He never was left to cry.

Are YOU happy with returning to settle your baby a couple of times before you go to bed?

If you are then continue.

There will be people who sleep train and people who don't. There isn't a right or wrong way. Only what works for you.

I did something similar to you. I would put dd to bed in my bed, cuddle and bf her to sleep. Most nights she would wake once or twice (sometimes 10 times) before I went to bed. I would feed her back to sleep. Usually only took a few minutes.

Both DD's slept in my bed until they turned 2. Neither slept through the night until we stopped breastfeeding at about 22 months. They would wake a few times for a quick feed.

But what's important is that it worked for our family. Like everything to do with parenting people will have differing opinions. It doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong.

You won't harm your dc by not sleep training.

@converseandjeans yeh it’s the same issue for me- I need my evenings and I do think we are both overtired

We did sleep training because I was broken. I was back working full-time from 6 months and my son woke at least 3 times every night. It went on for about a year. It was affecting my ability to function at work. More importantly, it was having an impact on my relationship with my son. I was so exhausted that there were mornings when I could barely look at him. I would leave the house angry, sometimes even hating him. Sleep-training worked for us. It took 3 nights. I know all the stuff about raised cortisol, but our attachment was being damaged far more by lack of sleep than it was by those 3 nights of controlled crying.

Do what works for you. There’s no right or wrong on this issue. The world would be a lot happier if mums stopped judging other mums.

@ChazP thanks for sharing your experience . Sounds like you definitely did what was right for you and your baby. I’m glad it worked for you. Were those three nights really tough? How long did he cry for? It does amaze me how effective it seems to be. I think that’s what I find difficult to get my head around.

My first DS slept through the night for 12 hours from about 5 weeks with minimal fuss.

My second DS could barely get through an hour without waking up. He was bottle fed from birth so I knew how much milk he was taking and wasn’t even hungry during the night. I decided around the nine month mark that I needed to take action as I was due back to work within three months.

I decided to put him in his own cot, in his own room and only go in to put his dummy back in. First couple of nights were a bit...tricky! However after about 5/6 days he seemed to master it and he’s slept through since then and he’s almost two.

As a PPs have said, your routine isn’t working so it might be time to stop slating people who are getting a full nights sleep and try it for yourself.

Remember you only need to try it. Nobody is going to force you to continue if you don’t like it.

It’s a while ago so I can’t completely remember.
First night I stayed in his room and every 10 minutes would get up and pat him and say sleep time. I think it took a couple of hours and he woke for about 45 minutes once in the night (I think)).

Night 2 was tougher, particularly in the middle of the night. Went in every 10 minutes to say sleep time. I reckon it took an hour at bedtime and then 1-1.5 hours a couple of times in the night. Very nearly gave in.

Night 3 took about half an hour to settle (not crying). Slept right through the night.

I do find that even now (he’s 5), that sleep is the first thing to go wrong with him if he’s poorly or over-tired etc. Plus he comes into our bed every night at any time from about midnight onwards and has done for at least a year so I can’t say we’ve solved it all completely! And I know that if we did a return to bed routine it would probably only take a few nights to get him to sleep in his own bed, but I kinda like the snuggles!

Ps he does always go to sleep in his own bed, so sleep-training definitely did help with that side of things for us. I figure all kids work out sleeping on their own at some point. It’s really whether you want to nudge them into it that sleep training works for.

YANBU to want to stick to a routine that suits you at all.
That said I did sleep train each of my children and never once have I left them to cry so I think there’s a lot of misconception around this.
I did it because it suited me and it would have drained my mental health to feed to sleep, therefore making me a lesser parent.
I also didn’t demand feed despite the pressure for the same reason.
You should do whatever is best for you and your child, everyone else’s opinion is irrelevant.

@lostinadream thing is though I don’t feel that it’s something I can just ‘try’. I feel like if you try it you have to commit otherwise you have all the trauma and none of the benefit!

I have 2 under 2, so I had to sleep train!
I didn't really want to at first, so my OH took over. DS we sleep trained at 8 months and DD at 7.
They both were sleeping through by day 4, 7pm-7am. I know now that if they wake up something is up so I always go to them straight away.
With DS before we sleep trained him he'd wake up every hour or two just for a cuddle, and whilst that was lovely it was exhausting! So once we made sure that all his needs were met, we did leave him to cry for intervals.

I know, it sounds cruel. But we are better parents for getting our sleep, and the kids are happier too.

Do what works for you and your family, as others say they are only little for a short while and time does fly. I prefer to enjoy the kids during the day though :)

@ChazP thank you! That’s all really helpful.

@Rosehip345 but then how did you sleep train them without leaving them to cry? Was it the nap adjustment thing you did you mean? Or something else?

I just can’t get my head around the idea that this is what I am supposed to do to be a good mum

I don't think anyone would say it's what you're supposed to do to be a good mum. But equally I don't think that sleep training automatically makes you a bad mum either.

My DD would only sleep in the bed with me, but once she went to bed at 7pm I couldn't move or she'd wake up instantly, she also wouldn't sleep downstairs in my arms so I had to go up to bed at the same time. I barely saw my husband because he didn't get home until gone 6 and DD wouldn't sleep if he was in the bed so he was on the sofa all night, and I would spend every evening lying in bed for hours wide awake, unable to even read a book without her waking. It made my PND worse and I was genuinely scared for my mental health.

We did a very gentle type of sleep training with her, and the aim was to get her asleep in the cot, not eliminate night wakings completely, and it worked better than I ever imagined it would.
But it was tough and she did cry (but was never left alone crying) and the only reason we kept it up was because I was a mess and my husband pretty much said enough was enough after coming upstairs one morning at 5am to find me in a hysterical panic attack, holding DD out to him and begging him to take her away, and he was absolutely right.
Obviously I also got professional help for the PND but I strongly feel like for us sleep training was the only option because carrying on was untenable. She still wakes in the night for a feed or two, which is fine, but I got my evening back, plus I sleep better at night as before I used to really struggle to sleep with her there, and it's made a monumental difference.

I think people make sweeping statements about sleep training, like how they all still wake up but don't bother crying because they know no one will come. We still go to DD whenever she cries, the sleep training was to get her to be able to sleep for a few hours at a time in the cot without being latched onto me. Sleep training is a huge spectrum so I don't think you can make any statements that apply to all of it.

Yabu.
You say you can't bear to hear your baby cry but you hear her cry every night and every day when she can't get to sleep.
That doesn't make sense.
I 'sleep trained' my babies when they were very young. I didn't know it was called that. I just knew that come 7pm I was exhausted, and I'd put them in their basket, and go and have a cup of tea with the door closed. I'd hear them cry at the beginning. They'd cry for 5 minutes tops, then be asleep for the next 12 hours. After a few days, they didn't cry at all. And that, apparently, is called cio.
So, once sleep training started, they cried cumatively in total about 15 minutes, and not a peep since. I'll wager that's far less crying than when you add up every 30 seconds every time every night from those who can't bear their babies crying.

Yep basically adjusted nap times and bedtime by 5mins per day until it was at where I wanted and it became habit. It also helped that I didn’t demand feed. Again done by stretching feeds out by 5mins at a time.
My first was perm and I was only allowed to feed her every four hours so had to soothe her in other ways, I probably wouldn’t have had the confidence to dictate a routine if I hadn’t had this experience first and seen it work.