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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is the chosen English rugby anthem appropriate do you think?

308 replies

NothingWrong · 08/02/2020 20:39

To me, it's an emotional song, about God really (coming for to carry me home). England has reduced it to bringing home a prize. Apart from cultural appropriation, is it appropriate for England to use a sort of Gospel song sung by black slaves as their rugby anthem?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Low,_Sweet_Chariot

Here's a link to its origins btw.

Personally I think it's arrogant of them to use this song in the way they do. I'm not looking for a fight! Rugby fans are generally respectful, so I'm just wondering A whether English fans know the origins of the song and B whether anyone else feels it's a little 'off'?

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 08:57

But hey, keep on singing about God coming to carry you home......

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pickingdaisies · 10/02/2020 08:58

Ooh they're a sensitive lot on this thread! I hadn't thought about it before, OP, but I remember the English rugby fans and ex public school boys at my Welsh university singing swing low back in the 70's, so it started before Chris Oti. It's not meant to be disrespectful. Not sure how the singing of sospan fach started at Welsh games either!

Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 08:59

I can't understand how English people don't understand the lyrics to what they're singing!

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Cheeserton · 10/02/2020 09:00

You find it 'offensive' when it's sung? Hmm

I'd suggest growing up and sodding off, frankly. What an absolute load of old rubbish.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 09:01

Yes - the English get very prickly altogether if you dare to question them.

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 09:03

Yes, I do find it offensive. To me, it's a song about God and going home to God. It's not about carrying home a trophy.

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LakieLady · 10/02/2020 09:11

Of all the songs sung by rugby players and fans, I can think of many that are a lot more offensive.

Some of our local teams sing "Delilah", ffs.

FizzyIce · 10/02/2020 09:32

Not about being “prickly” it’s about the eternally offended .
A lot of English do know the words and the meaning but choose to change that meaning to sing they’re coming “home” with the trophy .
Like it, don’t like , don’t care .

Samhradh · 10/02/2020 09:49

Some people just get very cross if you ask them to think about what they say or sing -- see numerous Mn threads with people huffing about 'not being able to keep up with what you're allowed you're allowed to call black people these days'. I can only assume that the trifling effort involved taxes minds unused to the most basic analytic thinking.

PortiaCastis · 10/02/2020 10:29

Morning OP, how are you today? I am so looking forward to going to the match (gloats and teases) I shall be singing all the songs there the Irish ones too, don't think anyone will stop singing swing low though but p'raps suggestions for a different anthem could be asked for by the Union.
Btw isn't Phil Coulter the guy behind Celtic Thunder?
As previously posted may the best team win 🏈🏈

mrsBtheparker · 10/02/2020 10:35

since they're the most renowned oppressors in the world historically!

Utter bo@@@cks, learn to read.

Stonerosie67 · 10/02/2020 15:55

uneducated
simpletons
arrogant
oppressors
ridiculous

So all this is ok, but if I were to call the Irish, oh I don't know, "thick" for instance, the roof would come off!! I wouldn't because I'm not a racist goady fucker, but what's sauce for the goose could be deemed sauce for the gander.....

shinynewapple2020 · 10/02/2020 17:17

I see you are upsetting a lot of people here OP but I admit I've always thought it was a strange choice of song. I figured it had some kind of meaning to rugby fans that I didn't understand.

And FWIW nobody I know really rates our national anthem either. I don't think it's a case of England having appropriated the British national anthem - but that unlike the other nations we don't have one of our own.

We always like Land of Hope and Glory (although may be that refers to Britain rather than England as well?)

My dad (sadly passed now) was a big rugby fan and despite having lived in England for his whole adult life he continued to support Wales where he was born, so I've always got a soft spot for Wales in any international sport.

TitianaTitsling · 10/02/2020 22:19

Exactly @Stonerosie67 I'm Scottish but it infuriates me absolutely that English 'bashing' appears to be fine....

Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 22:42

Well Titiana - how would you describe a nation who uses a song about death and slavery and a blessed release and finally going Home as a rousing rugby song when they're the very ones who were responsible for slavery and the reason why the song was written?

Intelligent?

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 22:45

I think the English just hear the words 'carry me home' (as in a trophy) and don't have an actual bog's notion what the song is about.

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JayAlfredPrufrock · 10/02/2020 22:48

You will keep on insisting the singing of the song is about bringing a trophy home.

It isn’t.

And you also keep insisting the singers don’t understand the lyrics.

What makes you think that?

Original poster
NothingWrong · 10/02/2020 23:11

Eh, because they couldn't possibly sing it in the circumstances they sing it in if they understood what the lyrics were about for a start and why the song was written for second.

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JayAlfredPrufrock · 10/02/2020 23:19

So only black slaves can sing the song?

MilesEdgeworth · 11/02/2020 03:00

No, but it's a bit fucking off for a country that was one of the principal benefactors of the slave trade to adopt a song written by an ex-slave, about the hardship of life as a slave, as a symbol of their national pride.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 11/02/2020 03:28

The English are welcome to use it as a gospel song (which is usually a prayer sung to God) in Church. But in this context - no. I think it's wrong.

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 11/02/2020 03:29

Miles how do you manage to put what I'm trying to say so succinctly?

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redshifter · 11/02/2020 05:27

I can't understand how English people don't understand the lyrics to what they're singing

Well out of all my Irish family (parents, aunties, uncles, nieces, nephews, in laws and DP) and many irish friends only one of them understand the lyrics to "Amhrán na bhFiann". They usually know what the first line means. The rest (well first verse and chorus) they know off by heart in Irish but have know idea of what they are actually singing.
The words could mean anything.
They know what the song represents though and that is what is important for a national or sporting anthem.
There are a lot of anthems and other songs that have dodgy lyrics or history if analyzed. But it is what they represent to the people singing that counts.

I just can't understand how Irish people can passionately sing lyrics that they dont understand.

Years ago I was at a Wolftones gig at Glasgow Barrowlands. At the end of the night all the Scottish fans sang the Soldiers Song in it's original English. So they knew what they were singing.
It was interesting. And fun.

NotGreatBob · 11/02/2020 06:01

I agree, it’s an awful choice. Such a typical choice from England though, wouldn’t you say? Grin

Original poster
NothingWrong · 11/02/2020 06:16

I just can't understand how Irish people can passionately sing lyrics that they dont understand.
I understand them. We studied them at school because our Irish teacher felt that we should know the lyrics to our National Anthem, an not only that, but that we'd know the history behind the lyrics!
My ex could tell you the name of every signatory to the Irish Proclamation - does he know the words to our anthem? Not a clue! though he is an idiot in fairness

It's not comparable either. Because ahem, the reason we don't speak our own language is because ahem ahem ahem the English sorry - took a fit of coughing there.

You were saying?

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