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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is the chosen English rugby anthem appropriate do you think?

308 replies

NothingWrong · 08/02/2020 20:39

To me, it's an emotional song, about God really (coming for to carry me home). England has reduced it to bringing home a prize. Apart from cultural appropriation, is it appropriate for England to use a sort of Gospel song sung by black slaves as their rugby anthem?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Low,_Sweet_Chariot

Here's a link to its origins btw.

Personally I think it's arrogant of them to use this song in the way they do. I'm not looking for a fight! Rugby fans are generally respectful, so I'm just wondering A whether English fans know the origins of the song and B whether anyone else feels it's a little 'off'?

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 03:58

I'm 42 years old.
I grew up in Ireland. I was a dancer. So we danced at night in pubs and clubs as part of a music group. We were also brought to pubs as children and given crisps and lemonade. We ran riot and they are some of my fondest memories of my childhood.
The other memory I have is that at the end of every music session/band etc., the last song played was Amhran na BhFiann. Even as young children, we'd be awoken from our slumber to stand up for the National Anthem! It's a source of great pride to us. It describes our fight for freedom. There was an almost religious respect surrounding the National Irish Anthem. Religious as in - fervent.

I've always grown up with a great pride in my country.
British people grow up with a great pride in being part of a Kingdom perhaps. I doubt there is much in the difference, apart from a massive void between understanding patriotism and being patriotic.

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 04:12

How could you not love us fuppin eejits? It's like when we get away from Mammy we just want to sing!

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 04:18

More of us goading the English for getting into a riot with the Russians. Heehee.

I'm very proud of our boys let loose. Hoodlums, but innocent hoodlums.

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 04:21

The Welsh might appreciate this sing off between Irish and Welsh fans

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Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 04:29

We tend to go for the craic not necessarily to win.

I identify very much with Ireland as a middle child.

England is the eldest sibling.
Then you've Wales, Scotland and Ireland
And then you've the twins
And the triplets.

We've a fondness for England (until it comes to rugby in my case). We're just a little 'different'.

Love the sing off with the Welsh and the Irish though.

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FairyBatman · 09/02/2020 04:50

Never heard Jerusalem gringringrin
And yet eminently qualified to comment on English anthems gringringrin
Bahahaha.

^
This is spades. Never been to an England match where it wasn’t played or sung.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 04:55

Mercifully I've never been to an England match! Grin

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eaglejulesk · 09/02/2020 04:57

What is Jerusalem

Even I know Jerusalem and it's relevance - and I live in New Zealand with no close ties to England!

Nuttyfellalovesnutella · 09/02/2020 05:16

It’s a bit of a shit song but so what? Let the English have it. It seems to have its own history in English rugby when they won World Cup. Who is to say one groups history trumps another’s? Especially seeing, evolutionary speaking everyone’s roots are in Africa.

Celebrating other cultures should be a wonderful thing. But the extremists have turned it into something to be ashamed about. Don’t let the minority of extremists win!

MindyStClaire · 09/02/2020 05:16

In fairness to OP, she's not pretending to be an expert in English rugby anthems, she's just wondering about the use of Swing Low. I'm also Irish and have often idly wondered how on earth it came about, it certainly seems a bit distasteful to me given the origins of the song itself that I'm familiar with.

Because of this thread, I googled and this article was the first result. It seems no one really knows why it came about, but if it really was directed at a black player, that moves beyond distasteful into something nastier imo.

And I'll invalidate my opinion by saying I like Ireland's Call - sure it was a bit shit at first, but it ticks the boxes (mention of four provinces, shouting Ireland) and now it makes me think of some great rugby days, especially the atmosphere around the anthems the first time England played at Croke Park.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:03

I hated Ireland's Call Mindy until I heard my Canadian nieces singing it in Canada! I made sure dd knew the words after that! We were not going to be outdone by the Canadians! (My brother and his wife and children lol).

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:04

Not that I'd be remotely competitive or anything................. *floats out of the room.

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:08

Well they're Irish, but I call them the Canadians.

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:10

They're as Irish as I am. Everything is awesome. Even my brother thinks things are awesome.

I sound totally awful lol.

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:12

Yes, but my daughter goes to a rugby school - though she doesn't partake herself. A little too precious about herself.

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:14

How are you Brian?
I'm great - how are you?
I got a new job.
That's awesome!!!

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:15

Prince Harry might come back describing things as awesome! I don't judge. much

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iismum · 09/02/2020 07:16

Come on, it’s ridiculous to say that someone can’t have an opinion on whether it’s ok for a country with a long and bloody history of slavery to use a slave song as their unofficial anthem unless that person is an expert in English rugby. There’s nothing in the history of English rugby or the use of swing low in it that changes that situation.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:18

Well that was a nice random segue from anthems to the Royal Family........

*looks around innocently hoping that nobody noticed that I thought I was on a thread about the royal family.

**Think I've gotten away with it.

So back to England was it?

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iismum · 09/02/2020 07:19

I think Jerusalem isn’t a great choice really. It’s about how England is a bit shit and needs to be reformed. Not that I disagree, but it’s an unconventional theme for an anthem ...

Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:20

iismum I genuinely don't think that English fans know the history or the lyrics of the song.

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NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:22

I suspect if you asked Average Bob - he'd be like 'ye, it's English man innit!'

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snappycamper · 09/02/2020 07:26

Quite amazed at the defensive and incredibly rude reactions from some posters. The use of that song is actually totally typical of the English (and I say that as someone born and raised here, admittedly to immigrant parents). English arrogance is renowned the world over.

iismum · 09/02/2020 07:26

@nothingwrong - I’m sure they don’t. I should think a lot of people only associate it with rugby and have no idea of is history. It’s really on the RFU to do something about it. But I’m not sure they would- it would be hugely unpopular.

Original poster
NothingWrong · 09/02/2020 07:30

Well I'm not affected really by it (a little bit), so I'm certainly not going to start a controversy over it. It seems to be well accepted over here - surprising! But it is what it is!

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