To ask for your opinion on faith schools?

[Syrinx89]

That's it, really. In this day and age, it seems strange to me.

If you don't like faith schools, ensure your kids don't attend one.

That’s the point, most people can’t! If everybody had a choice, there’d be no problem.

I’m just explaining that the current situation is of the Government’s doing.

Plenty of bad things are of the government's doing - I don't think that's controversial!

People's opinions on faith schools are often based on their own local situation. I'm not sure if this is a comprehensive list, but local situations fall broadly into:

1. Rural area, all schools are faith for many miles around. It is virtually impossible to send children to non-faith schools. Faith schools generally CofE.

1. Rural area, village schools where some are religious, some are not. Children mostly attend village primary. May be able to go to a different village school to avoid faith school, but this has social impact on those children.

1. Less rural areas, notional choice of schools. Faith schools may not serve local community or may create black holes for non-faith places.

This means that people's responses to the issue tend to ignore at least one of the scenarios.

For example @KatyCarrCan has ignored the problems faced by those in areas where all schools for miles are faith schools and those in black holes when they say "If you don't like faith schools, you don't need to send your child to one."

BadCatDirtyCat

No, you’re just having a good old moan! Fair enough.

The kids that go to faith school are entitled to tax-payer's money to educate them, right? They're not taking money away from other kids. They're using their own 'allowance' for a faith-led education.

If a Catholic/Muslim whatever has the option of a great religious school or a crappy non faith one, but an atheist only has the option of the crappy one, can you not see that that's unfair?

And yes, of course the non faith one should be improved, but the athiest should also have the choice to send their child to the other school.

@BettysLeftTentacle I’m not sure it’s true to say that most people don’t have the option. Some people don’t. And that, admittedly, is not fair.

I live in a complete shithole town that has been largely forgotten about and receives very little from the government. We’ve had lots of schools taken over or newly established in old school buildings (that were shut down) - not one is a faith school. There are faith schools and non-faith schools. In a small rural village perhaps that wouldn’t be the case, sure. But why should all the faith schools be shut down because some people don’t like them?

The solution is to create more secular schools.

Everyone does have a choice. What people don't have is a right to the most convenient option for them. None of us do.
If your local school is oversubscribed, you don't have a right to a place whether it's a faith school or not.
As for taking faith schools and turning them into secular schools, the government cannot afford to buy them into the estate. Realistically when you talk about getting rid of faith schools what you are really talking about is defunding them. Assuming you could get that through parliament (which you wouldn't) then the faith schools would still exist. People would still choose them. You'd still need to campaign for the government to build the secular schools you think would be popular. That's the campaign you'd end up having so why not start that?

Everyone does have a choice

That’s a fallacy. You can express a preference. In reality the system isn’t fit for purpose.

@mantarays otherwise known as answering the OP

But yes - having a good old moan too!

Actually I don’t think faith schools should be removed.

I think they should have two options - either stop using faith as a selection tool, or become independent.

I think they should have two options - either stop using faith as a selection tool, or become independent.

But they were independent before. The Government placed them where they are today. It would be completely unjust to reverse that without financial planning and support over generations.

@JacquesHammer I agree.

I actually don't mind a bit of religion in schools (I went to a Christian school and wasn't indoctrinated) it's the selection based on faith/church attendance that winds me up.

Our nearest state secondary, largest for several miles and the Ofsted best one (and only one in our walking distance) is Church of England and require 3 years of proven weekly church attendance to go! Obv we're not going down that route so DS will go to a less good one several miles away by bus.

It would be completely unjust to reverse that without financial planning and support over generations

So stop being selective on faith. That’s hardly “unjust”.

Even if faith schools became independent there still wouldn't be new secular schools. So where are you going to go? It doesn't solve your problem.

Unless your problem is people being able to choose faith based schools and it's not about your child's access to education at all ...

Unless your problem is people being able to choose faith based schools and it's not about your child's access to education at all

I have no problem with people choosing faith based schools. I have an issue with faith based schools being selective on faith grounds. And yes, it was a problem very much regarding my child accessing education.

JacquesHammer

It is entirely unjust. Educating your child in line with your faith is a fundamental right, and besides, the Government doesn’t own the land. This issue, if it is an issue, is of their making, and it is for the Governmemt to resolve the perceived deficit in secular schools without disadvantaging children in faith communities out of what would appear to be dog in the manger pique.

I went to 3 faith schools in the 90s/00s and I loved it despite not being religious.
All 3 were very accepting of atheists/other religions/gay people/sex before marriage etc. We were still taught about the church’s view on sex before marriage and homosexuality but it was taught with respect for others and without judgement.
I would happily send my children to a faith school.

It is entirely unjust. Educating your child in line with your faith is a fundamental right, and besides, the Government doesn’t own the land. This issue, if it is an issue, is of their making, and it is for the Governmemt to resolve the perceived deficit in secular schools without disadvantaging children in faith communities out of what would appear to be dog in the manger pique

And yet disadvantaging children who have no faith is “just”?

And yet disadvantaging children who have no faith is “just”?

No. As I said above, open some strictly secular schools. Don’t try to argue it is your right to make a state-supported decision about whether educate your child within a faith but not mine.

But the Government cannot change the criteria of faith schools and they cannot afford to buy the faith schools. So the only solution is to campaign for new secular schools.

I do sometimes wonder if the government deliberately stir up 'oh it's all the faith-based schools' fault' hysteria because it takes the focus away from them. If the secular schools system isn't fit for purpose that should be your focus for change. Railing against faith schools is just letting the government off the hook ... and stirring up religious intolerance.

No. As I said above, open some strictly secular schools. Don’t try to argue it is your right to make a state-supported decision about whether educate your child within a faith but not mine*

I’m not arguing that. Everyone should have equal choice. That choice isn’t equal at the moment. Which of course you’re happy with because it benefits you.

Society as a whole would benefit from an overhaul to the schools application process.

In my opinion any religious body should have no say in a state education. Teaching RE is a totally different thing and should definately be compulsory. But prayers, mass, general religious involvement in day-to-day teaching should not be at all.

If parents want a faith education they could choose private or attend a church with a broad Sunday school programm.

I especially resent the fact that baptised children have priority over distance, religion is a private choice and should not benefit a child above others.

I would also abolish the Daily Act of Worship even non-faith schools have to do.

Most schools we saw, luckily we moved to an area with no CoE/RC schools at all, were very nutering, had great support and especially the Infant sections were very nutering. These things are not just for a faith schools.

If the secular schools system isn't fit for purpose that should be your focus for change. Railing against faith schools is just letting the government off the hook ... and stirring up religious intolerance

When I was “campaigning for change” as you put it, the religious aspect was valid.

Interestingly (and some 9 years down the line) the schools that we didn’t get a place at because we weren’t of the correct faith are now undersubscribed and both received poor Ofsteds. I think there is a shifting mindset - certainly around here - of the type of education people want for their child.

JacquesHammer

I’m happy with it for me. I’m not happy with it for you. But if you had your way, we wouldn’t have equal choice: you would be able to educate your child in line with your conscience and I wouldn’t. I’m not a turkey!