AIBU to think he must start sleeping at some point?!

[Heihei]

Gorgeous DS is 6. He’s a smashing little lad. Funny, kind, confident, doing well at school. He’s largely a very happy boy.

He’s never been a sleeper. Horrific colic as a baby, then a very active toddler. We tried pretty much everything but he’d always fight sleep. We took a gentle approach and have never let him CIO. Both me and his dad have managed years of sleepless nights with the mantra ‘this too shall pass.’

But it’s not passing. He had a spell of about 6 months last year when he was great, going to bed with no issues, waking between half 5 and half six, which is great. But lately he’s been struggling again.

I’ve kept to his routine, bed at 7:30. A warm cup of milk and bath, reading then cuddles until he sleeps. But it’s taking over an hour and a half to get him to sleeping stage.

He’s visibly knackered. We have to get up at 6:30 to get ready for school and work. In the morning I have to get him up and ready and he’s so grumpy because he’s so tired. He still wakes up 2/3 times a night for a cuddle, or to talk to me e.g. he’ll shout for me, I go in, he says things like ‘I don’t like rock climbing’or ‘Katie is my best friend.’ I gently remind him that it’s sleepy time but he complains that he’s not tired even though he is!!

He doesn’t sleep in at weekend to catch up, he wakes at 5 then I spend an hour cajoling him to stay in bed.

I’ve tried all sorts. Earlier bed time, later bed time, massage, music, co sleeping (where he takes up 3/4 of the bed and moves around constantly so I can’t sleep then). He just doesn’t sleep. He has blackout curtains, a nightlight, plenty of teddies to cuddle. We make sure he’s active and eats well without too much sugar etc. But he doesn’t sleep. When he wakes in the night, there’s never anything particularly wrong. He’s not evidently anxious about anything, we have a great relationship we talk through any worries or fears. I never leave him to call out and I respond to all his wake ups as gently as possible. But it’s extremely trying.

Me and dad are totally worn out. He’s worn out. We can’t help but wonder when the poor sleeping will end? School helped for a while but it makes no difference now. AIBU to ask for any advice or tips to help ds sleep better? Or is this just a suck it up buttercup situation?

Have you looked into a sleep consultant? They can be pricey but may be able to help with solutions.

Firstly, not much help now but my ds was the same honestly I used to cry with exhaustion. He's now 17 and for the past 4/5 years has slept ALOT. It can be 2/3pm before he's up.
I do wonder if by responding to him as you are you're kind of rewarding the waking up? You sound alike a very loving mother but you can't keep putting his needs first when he doesn't really NEED anything.
I'm not saying ignore him but explain that night time is quiet time and if he calls you you're not always going to hear him - I'm not sure. It's years since we had this but ours used to come into our bed for cuddles.
Is he cold? Needs a wee?
Sorry if that's not much help but you're right 'this too shall pass'!

My DS is almost 9 and still only has about 5 hours sleep and that’s on a good night with sleeping meds! Some kids just don’t need the extra sleep unfortunately. I would look into a sleep therapist though.

I'd be inclined to not engage in any way except 'back to sleep'. Then lights off and leave

I think you need a firmer approach now he's 6. Get a grow clock, tell him when the light is blue he's to stay in bed and not wake you. Only exceptions are taking himself to the toilet without waking you, or an emergency.
If he wakes you in the night, tell him to go back to bed. Don't engage further.

Is his bedtime routine too long perhaps? 45 minutes is long enough, any longer and I think it's ends up walking them up further.
I don't read stories at bedtime I think they keep my 3yo awake longer. I read to him at other times of the day.

Could drinking milk so late be waking him up sometimes for the toilet?

Thank you so much for the responses so far. A sleep therapist is a great idea if we can afford it. Stupidly I thought they were for younger children and we’d missed the opportunity.

I do agree that I might be rewarding him with attention but I can’t bear to hear him call out and dismissing him. I know it’s daft because 99% of the time he’s calling out for nothing. I’m so soft.

I do agree that I might be rewarding him with attention but I can’t bear to hear him call out and dismissing him. I know it’s daft because 99% of the time he’s calling out for nothing. I’m so soft.

I understand this but proper sleep is so important for children. You're doing him no favours by constantly responding to him getting up in the night. He really needs to be sleep trained.

This upcoming half term would be a good time to 'crack' the problem, he won't need to be up for anything etc, so no stress if he has a few worse night's sleep.

Yes, you’re right. I must toughen up a bit. I’m afraid I’ve made a rod for my own back. With this in mind could I please ask for some guidance? If he calls out do I just say ‘back to sleep.’ What if he asks for a cuddle? I sound like a total dope I know!

I used millpond for my dd who just wouldn’t sleep. They were amazing- she was a bit younger though, maybe 2 1/2 still worth a look though. Was very gentle approach.

The way to look at is that your behaviour is contributing to the problem and so as the adult it's up to you to change it, even if it's hard.

Do you think he'd respond to a reward chart? So you sit him down and explain to him that now he's six, a big boy, he'll need to try to get himself back to sleep on his own without calling mummy. Start off with fairly big rewards that he can easily earn. So, maybe, agree that you'll do the bedtime routine and then you'll sit with him for ten minutes. He then needs to spend ten whole minutes trying to go to sleep on his own and if he does that he gets a reward (something he likes). Move the length of time up and up so eventually he should fall asleep on his own. If he does that then the next thing to tackle is the waking - if he can go one night without calling mummy or daddy he gets a big reward. Then two nights and so on. If he calls the first night, go in and give him a second chance - remind him of the reward and say that you'll ignore this one call out but he needs to sleep and if he does he'll still get the reward. Hopefully over time he'll just stop waking up - it's probably just a habit that he needs an incentive to break.

Well, because hes now 6 i think you can have a conversation with him about it. So for example you could say....

"Because your a big boy now you need more sleep, if you wake up i want you to close your eyes and go back to sleep. Mummy and daddy arent going to get up anymore when you shout because we need to get sleep aswel"

Im afraid you have made a rod for your own back with the current situation but you can get out of it with a little bit of perseverance.

My eldest DD is very similar in that shes hyperactive and could live on minimal sleep, but to me sleep is very important for my sanity and her development, if shes allowed to come into our bed one night it manifests itself into 2 then 3 and so on, they are very smart and can make things a habit before you even realize.

Equally you can change the habit into a more positive one.

Good luck :)

If he asks for a cuddle.... I'd be inclined to say"cuddle in the morning. Back to sleep"

With the back to sleep thing. You might need to start with going to his room and firmly saying 'back to sleep' but be prepared for him to try to start a conversation. You have to be strong and keep repeating and leave!
Be prepared for him to up the ante by doing things like 'i'm scared' 'i feel sick'

The idea is to keep interaction to a minimum, so as PPs have said, he isn't rewarded by disturbing you.

If it's boring and he gets basically no attention he'll stop doing it for the 'silly' reasons

These ideas are great thank you! We did try a reward chart last year, but it’s possibly worth giving it another go now he’s a little older. I do like the idea of having a chat to him about it too, so I’ll give that a go tonight. Having different perspectives is really helpful.

I would ignore first couple of calls. If he's persistent tell him 'it's night time, go back to sleep. And repeat. Don't get drawn into discussion.
If he asks for a cuddle tell him once his grow clock turns orange he can come into your bed and have a cuddle.

I would try and get out of the habit of cuddling him to sleep at the beginning of the night. When he wakes up in the middle of the night he is expecting you to come and do this again. Stick to your routine, milk bath story and then a nice cuddle and lights out whilst he’s still awake. It might take a few attempts the first couple of nights for him to get used to this, but the sooner he learns to settle himself, the less he will wake up and want you in the night.
I have an almost 4 year old, he mostly sleeps through the night, but occasionally he will wander into our room looking for us. All I do is guide him back to bed, tuck him in and say good night again and that’s it.
Good luck, it will all be worth it, and so important that he starts getting better sleep x

I agree with not cuddling him to sleep. He's not learning how to get himself back to sleep when he wakes.

I would give him a cuddle and then leave him to go to sleep by himself. You could always start by sitting in the room with him ( no talking) if he finds it too hard. Then after a few times change to just pottering about upstairs so he knows you're around. Gradually withdraw completely.

Have you spoken to your GP and checked he doesn’t actually have a sleep disorder?
It might not just be he should learn now he’s 6 but an actual sleep condition.
Maybe see if you can get a Sleep study?

Dd wakes up a billion times. Turns out she has sleep apnea and the gasping for breath wakes her fully up every sleep cycle.

No, I haven’t had him to the GP about it, I honestly thought it was just a case of him not liking sleep. I’ll look to make an appointment and get him checked out. Aside from that, I’ll definitely try being a little firmer, I know it’s for the best. I think I just get stuffed up with mummy guilt and pander to him too much!

Food intolerances? I was a horrendous sleeper for 25 years.

Salicylates www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/salicylates are a very common reason for hyperactivity as well as artificial colours and flavor enhancers www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/621-msg-msg-boosters-flavour-enhancers-and-natural-glutamates and nitrates www.fedup.com.au/factsheets/additive-and-natural-chemical-factsheets/249-252-nitrates-nitrites-and-nitrosamines.

Or perhaps it's the glass of milk in the evening? If I get a cows milk contamination, I can't always feel pain or overactive digestion whatever is happening inside me can very much prevent me from sleeping or wake me from deep sleep.

It’s just a bad habit he’s got into that you’re reenforcing. He’s very old and can fully understand, talk to him about it clearly, discuss it then stick to it. Maybe a monitor you can talk to him through will be a middle ground for now that won’t involve you going in.

Thank you for all the responses and advice. My plan is to talk to DS tonight and explain that we all, especially him, need more sleep. I’m going to be firmer regarding going in to him and I’ll try to make sure he understands why. I’m also going to reintroduce a reward chart. I will certainly get him checked with the GP if there’s no improvement.

Contact lyndsey hookway or Fern Bishop. They're who you need!

No help but can I just say, with everything I've just read you and your husband are amazing parents.