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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

....to think people are over exaggerating how bad Universal Credit really is?

347 replies

GingaNinja84 · 03/02/2020 21:14

Hear me out!

I've recently come off maternity leave and have just signed up to UC to supplement my wages for the next few months, while I ease my way up to full time hours. I'm not entitled to a lot, but what I do get will be enough to live on and pay my bills until March when I go full time again.

All very easy. Apply online, meeting at job centre, first payment next week. Smashing.

Can the people who've experienced the horror stories please share? I'm intrigued as to how and why it's badly affected some people, and how much worse off people are on UC now, than they were on old style benefits. All I've ever heard from everyone I know is that UC is terrible and I shouldn't go on it (just go back full time straight away instead....)....without backing it up with any real stories or details.

I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a benefits bashing thread. I'm just really interested in how other people use the new system, and it's benefits and drawbacks Grin

OP posts:
NamesChangedTo · 04/02/2020 07:46

Just for others, the system genuinely is that if you are moved on to UC and you are totally paralysed, the BEST case scenario:

  1. They give you no money at all for five weeks for no discernible reason.
  2. Then for three more months they pay you the lowest rate despite agreeing you are disabled, again, with no rationale at all.
  3. Then after 16 weeks they will pay you enough money to live in poverty rather than die in poverty. If you make it that far!

That is genuinely the BEST case scenario. In his case they haven't even done that. It's clear the only reason to do this is punitive. It's a system entirely designed to harm profoundly disabled people. I personally think it is to kill them but you may not wish to go that far.

Forget the government, every single person who works for the DWP etc is a collaborator. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 07:55

Forget the government, every single person who works for the DWP etc is a collaborator. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

I know you are angry but that's really unfair.

I work with DWP staff and they are on the whole good people who can see UC doesnt work and do their best to support claimants. Yes you get the odd bad egg but most staff hate the system, are massively overworked and under immense pressure. There is a very high staff turn over of DWP frontline staff because the system does not work.

They get 2 weeks training and it is very very basic. Most staff who manage UC claims dont know enough about the benefit and have huge caseloads to manage which is impossible.

The systems doesnt work and sadly your relative is one of many vulnerable people who has been let down.
He should be getting council tax support which is paid by the council not UC and it's the councils decision if they pay it. If he is on PIP enhanced then he should be exempt. It sounds like the council are the ones messing up.

Parker231 · 04/02/2020 07:59

Everyone should be watching the film I, Daniel Blake.

Blake is a 59-year-old widowed carpenter who must rely on welfare after a recent heart attack leaves him unable to work. Despite his doctor's diagnosis, British authorities deny Blake's benefits and tell him to return to his job. As Daniel navigates his way through an agonizing appeal process, he begins to develop a strong bond with a destitute, single mother who's struggling to take care of her two children.

Nanna50 · 04/02/2020 08:08

Forget the government, every single person who works for the DWP etc is a collaborator. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

This is unfair. I don't work for the DWP or JC+ but staffing has been cut by 21% as part of government cuts to the budget, that is a lot of staff. The older experienced staff are going and new staff are not trained. The digital process treats claimants as numbers not people.

While there are some unsympathetic employees and some difficult ones it is mostly lack of knowledge that is frustrating, but it is the system that is broken.

Basically the government has no will to help those most in need.

MintyMabel · 04/02/2020 08:12

Believe it or not some people are not IT literate at all for many reasons plus they have no access to the internet as they cannot afford it. It's not treating claimants like children it's about understanding that there are barriers to people claiming benefits.

Those numbers are comparatively low, though, aren’t they. We don’t have a large number of claimants who can’t use a computer or have access to the internet. People like to make out this is a massive issue when it actually isn’t.

MintyMabel · 04/02/2020 08:13

Everyone should be watching the film I, Daniel Blake.

They should also remember it is a fictional story.

MintyMabel · 04/02/2020 08:14

require the claimant to attend appointments which some are unable because of their sickness/disability.

Which is illegal under the Equalities Act.

Parker231 · 04/02/2020 08:18

The film is based on situations actually affecting real people.

TabbyMumz · 04/02/2020 08:22

"Wait, what? You can claim uc just because you work part time? I did not know this but it does not seem very moral. I work part time but it's my choice. Surely you shouldn't get top up money?"
This has been the case for at least 15 years. Where have you been?

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 08:23

Those numbers are comparatively low, though, aren’t they. We don’t have a large number of claimants who can’t use a computer or have access to the internet. People like to make out this is a massive issue when it actually isn’t.

Well I work 40 hpw supporting these low numbers and I have a nearly unmanageable caseload as do the 12 others in my team and we only cover 1 large city on the UK. Not to mention we only work with a certain group of people so there is welfare rights doing the same work and CAB but yeah...I'm making it up Hmm

Oh how I wish that film was a work of fiction. I can tell you from experience what Daniel went through is not fiction and I see it too much in my job.

Which is illegal under the Equalities Act.

You would think so however the pressure and threats of sanctions put on claimants to attend appointments and complete complex paperwork is real and the processes and time it takes to have reasonable adjustments made due to disability has the result of people going without and payments being made to them.

Ponoka7 · 04/02/2020 08:31

"Those numbers are comparatively low, though, aren’t they. We don’t have a large number of claimants who can’t use a computer or have access to the internet."

Why gives you that idea? The men who used to do my gardens, who are in their late 50's, have had to claim UC. They aren't computer literate and neither are a lot of manual workers of that generation. They've only had to claim UC because a lot of their customers who have been hit by the cuts, now have to do without anything not essential. You can see the difference in the area that I live in. It's got the same scruffy look that it had in the 70's/80's.

In areas were the education levels are poor, teens can use phones, but not computers and their literacy standard is awful.

lengthenmylutealphase · 04/02/2020 08:33

Those numbers are comparatively low, though, aren’t they. We don’t have a large number of claimants who can’t use a computer or have access to the internet. People like to make out this is a massive issue when it actually isn’t.

Actually you would be surprised. This is my line of work.

Not to mention people whose English is their second language (or don't speak it at all) and people who have low level learning difficulties perhaps not diagnosed or bad enough to get ESA component but enough that they find managing their online account impossible without assistance.

The charity I work for has a team of 8 of us doing this part time and we've seen around 4000 in the past 12 months who couldn't manage even the application for universal credit and then have to keep coming back for help logging in or even to check their account as they don't have internet access or a computer.

There are several other organisations in my city doing the same thing (housing associations, disability alliances, CAB, homelessness charities) so can you imagine the total number? And that's the people that have been helped.

Several of my customers don't have bank accounts or ID or smart phones.

Refugees, prison leavers, homeless, vulnerable people.

There are lots of them.

FizzyIce · 04/02/2020 08:37

You’re ok OP as you said yourself , you have wages and you use UC as a “top up”
Not everyone who is on UC has any wages to top up and I’m not talking about those who never work ,I’m talking about those who are single parents ,vulnerable people ,etc.. so while it’s great for you it can be really shit for someone else .
Count yourself lucky

lengthenmylutealphase · 04/02/2020 08:40

That 4000 may be since October 2018 actually but still it's a good indicator of numbers.

AgeShallNotWitherHer · 04/02/2020 08:43

Once it is up and running it is easier than old benefits. (In my expereince).
There are difficulties for people who don't have acccess to internet for whatever reason but actually for most the work coach/journal approach is not hard.
The point was to incentivise work - and so it is bound to be different.
The five week wait is a problem - but not for everyone. If you start a job you have to work for a month before you get paid

AgeShallNotWitherHer · 04/02/2020 08:47

Not being able to speak English is a not a "disability" - it is something you can rectify - and should. All of us would learn "Esperanto" pretty fast if we crash-landed in the snow and HAD to communicate to eat.

PeapodBurgundy · 04/02/2020 08:49

@MyDcAreMarvel

Any new claim has to be for UC (or was at the time, I think they've suspended that for now but not 100%). Having a second child meant we had to put in a new claim with DD added on.

Ponoka7 · 04/02/2020 08:49

Report on UC from the UN.
"UN poverty inspector slams government on Universal Credit and Brexit
Philip Alston’s interim conclusions following a two-week of tour of the UK are that the Government’s policies have inflicted “unnecessary misery”

The UN’s poverty inspector has pulled no punches with his criticism of the UK government’s policies and drastic cuts to social support, warning that they are entrenching people in poverty and “inflicting unnecessary misery”.

Special rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights Philip Alston delivered his initial findings today following a two-week tour of the UK to assess hardship in nine English cities as well as Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.

He reported that 14 million people, a fifth of the population, live in poverty. Four million of these are more than 50 per cent below the poverty line, and 1.5 million are destitute, unable to afford basic essentials. After years of progress, poverty is rising again, with child poverty predicted to rise seven per cent between 2015 and 2022. Homelessness is up 60 per cent since 2010, and food banks are also rapidly multiplying.

Alston targeted child poverty as well, describing the predicted seven per cent rise in rates by 2022 as “staggering”. He said: “In the fifth richest country in the world, this is not just a disgrace, but a social calamity and an economic disaster, all rolled into one.”

Universal Credit
The result was a scathing attack on Universal Credit, demanding that the five-week waiting period for a first payment should be abolished immediately. He also revealed a third of claimants give up on the digital-only application process before receiving payment – a situation Alston suggested, “The DWP would be happy with because it means paying less benefits”.

He also warned that the motivation behind the controversial benefit reform was to slash spending, despite finding little evidence that there had been any savings, and that the message to claimants is, “You are alone” and that state assistance is the “last resort”.

RECOMMENDED…Universal Credit agents were pressured to get claimants ‘off the phone’
“British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach,” Alston said before turning to the issue of single-household payments. “There is such a gender dimension to these welfare reforms that if you got a group of misogynists in a room and said how can we make this system work for men and not for women they would not have come up with too many ideas that are not already in place. I asked the ministers I spoke to if they thought there was a gender dimension to these proceedings and they said no. 90 per cent of lone single parents are women so who do you think comes out worse in these reforms? Lone single parents.”

“Almost all studies have shown that the UK economy will be worse off after Brexit. Consequences for inflation, real wages, and consumer prices will drive more people into poverty unless the government takes action to shield those most vulnerable and replaces current EU funding for combatting poverty,” he said.

“The government has remained in a state of denial, and ministers insisted to me that all is well and running according to plan,” Alston said. “Despite making some reluctant tweaks to basic policy, there has been a determined resistance to change in response to the many problems which so many people at all levels have brought to my attention.

A government spokesperson hit back at Alston’s claims – insisting that the benefits system is “supporting people into work faster”.

“We completely disagree with this analysis"

The evidence is there. People's real life situations are plain to see. The employment figures/job creation (or rather lack of), particularly for the North is there, but the Government just dismisses it with "we disagree".

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 08:52

Age

On paper if you are a "neat" claimant UC works and can work better than legacy benefits. However once you throw in a little untidiness it breaks down.

Variable working hours such as those on zero hour contracts mean people can go a month with little wages and no UC simply because its paid in arrears.
People end up taking these shitty zero hour contracts because UC forces them to.

If you are ill/disabled/have childcare/are a carer all have a negative affect on how well UC works.

It's a blanket benefit that does not work for those who aren't able bodied, of working age, IT literate/have access to the internet,no illness, no caring responsibilities, have a job that is stable hours and pay and live in social housing.

Madein1995 · 04/02/2020 08:53

I've never met anyone, even someone with low literacy levels and living in poverty, who don't have Internet access. In so many cases a cheap 2nd hand smartphone is cheaper than a smaller or basic mobile

names what a lovely attitude 🙄 ever thought they the kind dwp staff try to make it easier for claimants?, I used to work on Pip and I certainly didn't agree with government, but I needed a job. Incidentally I took time and was nice to people and gave the best advice I could, which yes was unlike my colleagues sometimes. Things like calming people down on motorways, going through their pip form for them, chatting to them, letting them rant or cry.

Maybe work for dwp and see how you like it. Money isn't great and there's not much job security. You're short-staffed, not properly trained, with very little experience.

I think the vitriol towards dwp workers hilarious tbh, directed at the completely wrong people. Incidentally I've looked at the surviving uc page and while some seem quite sensible and reasonable, some are of the 'froth at the mouth, call them all bustards, fail to listen to reaskn' tribe

moneyQuerying · 04/02/2020 08:54

Half expecting to see
review collected as part of a promotion after each ‘positive’ UC comment

For the vast majority it’s been awful

PityParty4one · 04/02/2020 08:56

Not being able to speak English is a not a "disability"

Nobody said it was but it is a barrier to making a claim and understanding the system.
Learning a new language does not happen overnight and even those who's native tongue is English struggle with the language used in the benefits system.

Or are you one of these "live in our country speak our language" types Hmm

lengthenmylutealphase · 04/02/2020 08:59

@AgeShallNotWitherHer who said it was a disability?

IfNot · 04/02/2020 09:04

Taz credits got a really bad rep. You didn't get overpaid if you informed them of changes, that's all. You had to be fairly proactive but the beauty of that system for me was that it's worked out over the whole tax year, so as a freelance/zero hours worker all I had to do was keep track of my income and my TC payments stayed the same all year.
If I needed UC now it would be a nightmare because some months I earn 3 times more than other months. Also I think they treat you more like a job seeker, is that right? So meetings and monitoring etc. It costs nearly a fiver to get a bus to the job centre and back so that's shit for a start.

MissingSilence · 04/02/2020 09:16

I put my DD in childcare, paid out £300 or so for half the month, then 2 weeks later paid out £550 for the following month ... got my UC benefit for a whole £150 because that’s how many sessions she’d done. Never mind I’m nearly £1000 down. The payments are always a month behind, which is fine once it starts rolling, but say you have a cheap childcare month (my childminder takes holiday) then you have to plan ahead as you will pay a normal sum the following month but get the small UC payment for the month prior. I’m grateful for it and I find it okay now, but the majority of people on it I’m sure couldn’t afford to sink £1000 into childcare when they’re just going into work.