....to think people are over exaggerating how bad Universal Credit really is?

[GingaNinja84]

Hear me out!

I've recently come off maternity leave and have just signed up to UC to supplement my wages for the next few months, while I ease my way up to full time hours. I'm not entitled to a lot, but what I do get will be enough to live on and pay my bills until March when I go full time again.

All very easy. Apply online, meeting at job centre, first payment next week. Smashing.

Can the people who've experienced the horror stories please share? I'm intrigued as to how and why it's badly affected some people, and how much worse off people are on UC now, than they were on old style benefits. All I've ever heard from everyone I know is that UC is terrible and I shouldn't go on it (just go back full time straight away instead....)....without backing it up with any real stories or details.

I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a benefits bashing thread. I'm just really interested in how other people use the new system, and it's benefits and drawbacks

UC has completely crippled us to the point we are behind on every bill getting services cut off etc.

With TC we weren't loaded but we could pay all our bills and feed our dcs.

We went from being entitled to 100/wk TC to no UC at all.

And dont get me started on the way the "work coaches" speak to you via the journal. Made me feel 2 inches tall.

UC just sounds like a front for a discriminatory overhaul of the disability benefits system

UC was a government reaction to people's attitudes about those on welfare.
Those that watch benefit street or benefits by the sea etc. Those that call all benefit claimants scroungers, or single mums just have kids to get houses and money etc.
They believe all their tax goes to fund the unemployed.
.they ignore the reality that unemployment is the smallest part of the welfare bill and those that abused unemployment are a tiny percentage.
But the government listened and punished the many because of the few.

Never heard of these premiums...I totally thought PIP was the only thing you could claim for disability.

No, Pip is a non means tested benefit to help toward the extra costs of a disability

ESA was the out of work benefit that could be claimed for ill health or disability. It’s now part of UC.

The premiums were an extra amount for people who were recognised by the system of many hoops that were the most in need

They have been removed - so basically taking money from the most needy

I've just applied as we're eligible for a short amount of time currently due to my maternity pay being very low. We applied a while back as it was saying we were eligible online, and then after going through the whole process, it then transpired we just earnt above the threshold. Our claim was then cancelled and its only a few months later but we have to start from the beginning again.

If there is just one of you, in employment (or not) I imagine it's reasonably straight forward. I've found it ridiculous, as applying with a partner, you both need an appointment to prove identity, these were only available 9-5 and my DH was in training an hour away from our home town at the time and couldn't take time off. There were no allowances at all they could make for this. I'm employed and self employed so apparently needed an appointment for the self employed part, but when I got there was told as I had a child under 3 this wasn't really necessary for me to go to. My DH then had to have an appointment about the fact he is technically a student, but when he got there as he doesn't receive any student finance as its all done through his employer, again we were told actually he needn't have had one.

It just seems like there's a set script/formula and they are incapable of understanding people who don't fit into this. It's also ridiculous that if you want to claim for childcare, you do it in arrears, when tax free childcare is done up front. I don't see how that helps get people back into work, particularly women. And then there's the 5 week wait. We're applying because we're eligible and entitled to a little, but we could cope without it, for those who are desperate they need the money now, not in 5weeks time!!

But Lyra, am I right in thinking ESA doesnt exist anymore? So you can now only claim for PIP?

But Lyra, am I right in thinking ESA doesnt exist anymore? So you can now only claim for PIP?

New style ESA is part of universal credit

PIP is still a non means tested benefit people who claim benefits, don’t claim benefits and who work can claim

“you won’t lose any money if you move to UC via managed migration because you will get transitional protection.” Ha! Not necessarily true. If a claimant is sick/disabled they can lose certain premiums. Transitional protection also only applies until there’s another “significant change in circumstances” and that can even include condition/health worsening which then gives the dwp the opportunity to remove TP. Has happened to several people I know.

@madein1995 your posts are spot on. The cuts to education and connected services is leaving many at a serious disadvantage, this has many detrimental effects for them and the whole of our society. It’s why short term shortsighted penny pinching is a long term false economy.

Many Tory voters give it “the Tories have to cut back because of labours spending” (which is untrue anyway!) but labour spending levels generally need to be as high as they are to correct the issues caused by Tory cuts!!

“How can a couple get away with working 20hrs between them, when as a single parent working 37.5 I'm being told I have to find more work” has op mentioned how many hours partner/husband does? Is there a partner/husband?

“The government spends way too much time and effort clawing back money from those at the bottom yet hands out billions of aid to banks with no recompense.” Yep! also there’s plenty of money available to give tax breaks to the already wealthy who don’t NEED additional help, also they’ll always find money for wars, elections, mps costs, vanity projects (apparently Chris graylings mistakes have cost Uk BILLIONS alone)...

Why do we infantilise benefits claimants as incapable of something as basic as filling in a form on a website? you ever claimed? Ever tried using govts crappy glitchy websites?

I hold 2 degrees - one medical and one in English, I’ve been a civil servant (different dept) and I came an absolute cropper attempting to claim completing the forms myself.

There is very specific language and detail they are looking for which they don’t tell you and if you don’t know you couldn’t possibly guess at.

In addition the questions are very carefully worded such that many questions APPEAR to be asking for the same or similar information which is very confusing.

Also I made a mistake which I am told many make which was (out of a weird mix of pride, shame and ignorance of how the system works) to basically describe my BEST days as opposed to being brutally honest and describing my worst days.

I also mistakenly thought I was only supposed to include details relating to my worst/main conditions and not all health related problems.

They are NOT simple forms to complete by any means and I would and do always advise new claimants to get support from an experienced agency to help them complete them and ensure they include all the evidence dwp could possibly ask for (they have a nasty habit of accepting the evidence clearly asked for on the form AND THEN asking for more evidence before they can process your claim)

They are also a nightmare for “losing” evidence and forms, I have learned the hard way the best option for submitting forms is to do so in person AND to get a signed and printed receipt AND to check the signature and printed name matches. (Yes they can and will LIE).

“if it is a council property then UC have to pay the rent that the council state it is. UC contact the council via an electronic portal and confirm the person is a tenant and what the weekly rent charge is. They can't refuse to pay less than what the council are charging.” Where have you got that from?! It’s nonsense!

“Everyone should be watching the film I, Daniel Blake.” I want to, I honestly haven’t felt strong enough to I genuinely think I would find it too distressing as someone extremely vulnerable and dreading being moved onto UC. I am desperately hoping we’ll have a different govt here (be that a different British govt or an independent Scots govt - which is looking more appealing by the minute!) before I am transferred onto UC.

“It just made me wonder what is stopping all these very qualified people getting jobs in the sectors they have 20+ years experience in (I'm talking a man who was a forklift driver for 25 years, applying for an admin role).” You really can’t think why a man in his 50’s may no longer be able to do such a physically demanding job?! Even simple things like naturally diminishing eyesight could render him unfit to continue driving a forklift.

I have an uncle who’s worked in construction since he was 15, he’s now 60, really suffering from trying to continue doing the work, barely literate, completely IT illiterate (can barely manage sending a text) yet under this govt he’s expected to continue working several more years or have to justify what is basic bloody common sense - that he’s now too old and unfit to do the job he’s done for 45 years!

Then there’s the plain lack of jobs available. Even the govts own stats show there are way more jobseekers than there are jobs available. There’s been zero investment in Uk industries.

“UC was a government reaction to people's attitudes about those on welfare.” Oh please! Tory govts stoke such attitudes they always have! They never wanted the welfare state or the nhs in the 1st place they’ve never denied this.

@MintyMabel I don’t think it is “comparatively low” though. I know many people who can barely text. Libraries and other centres that provide free or cheap access to the internet are being closed or the equipment/software isn’t fit for the task.

I’m housebound at the moment, I don’t have a laptop or a desktop computer at the moment, last one died several years ago and at the time I couldn’t afford to replace. Thanks to a gift from my parents I have a little in savings at the moment which I would like to use to buy a laptop, but I’m fearful of using the savings this way in case I need them either for Brexit issues or transfer to UC.

When I was last out & about and I (wrongly) thought I was up to working plus I was helping dd with job hunting as she was just leaving school. Many job search sites and digital application forms are either easier to use on a desktop or laptop computer or inaccessible on a tablet or phone altogether. So we were using the library and local careers centre for these, also for printing as I don’t have a printer. The computers in the library and careers centre are pretty ancient and the software is too. They cannot afford to upgrade due to central govt cuts. They also can’t afford to have as many as are needed demand very much outweighs supply. To try and make it as fair as possible you can only book 1 hour at a time on a computer with the possibility at quiet times to request a 30-60 minute “extension”. Anyone who’s job hunted in recent times will know it can easily take at least an hour to complete digital applications (especially if the computer keeps freezing and if it’s a long one with psychometric testing etc) The computers and the server frequently crash and can take hours to be up and working again. It is NOT EASY to access computers, printers, internet UNLESS YOU HAVE MONEY.

And that’s even before you get into the IT literacy aspect. Funnily enough on here at the moment I’m on a thread where a lot of “computer tips” are being shared. Many of them are actually very basic functions which anyone who’d had decent IT training particularly on windows packages would already know. The posters discussing them are clearly intelligent, articulate and sensible people but because nobody has ever shown/told them about these they were unaware - you don’t know what you don’t know.

I’m fortunate to

A be pretty quick at picking up this type of knowledge/training

B I was working in administration within the govt when windows first reached workplaces and so we were sent on a load of courses to learn all the applications and the people teaching us, taught us lots of “tips and tricks” too it was incredibly useful.

C I was able at that time to afford and have the time to attend an evening class in business administration and basic bookkeeping which was also very useful. Plus I was able to practice at home as we had a desktop computer then. Then husband and I working full time and earning pretty well.

Plus remember ANY system needs a RELIABLE backup option. Internet can go down at any time without warning. Power cut in my area last week, not internet without electricity! And I’ve seen and heard of numerous times when the dwp site has crashed or glitched. There’s also been many issues with dishonest use of journals by dwp staff - deletion of messages showing why a claimant didn’t attend appointment, complaints from claimants regarding non payment etc. It got so bad at one point (so clearly not a case of “rogue staff”) that many advisors and advice given on sm etc was to screenshot every message to keep a separate record. Utterly outrageous that this is even necessary!

“Which is illegal under the Equalities Act.”
Please do feel free to point this out to dwp. Myself and many others have been told to attend appointments in places we cannot access and then made to feel WE are the awkward ones when we point it out! Inc but not Ltd to my friend with cp who has always been a wheelchair user and was repeatedly sent appointments to offices with outside steps being the only access to the building.

“Don't underestimate how quickly the dehumanising process of being treated like a number is.” Absolutely! Or how quickly that happens!

I well remember my first visit to the council with dd in her buggy to get housing benefit claim forms. The person serving me (who looked all of 12 herself!) looked me up and down, turned to get the form and muttered to her colleague ‘another scrounging single mum’ without knowing ANYTHING about me or my circumstances.

“Most if us are no more than 3 pay packets away from disaster” shelter estimates a 1/3 of the population is ONE paycheque away from homelessness and they consider that an UNDER estimate.

That's not true I dont think, you can receive the higher rate mobility if you live with other people and they can receive the care allowance.

Hence why I said standard.
SDP is very different from PIP and given under the rules I said.
To claim SDP as a couple both must be on the qualifying benefit.

Pity party, I dont thinks SPD exists anymore. Another poster has said it became part of ESa which is now scrapped as part of universal credit? Although having just googled it, and was £63 a week and higher lever pip is £86 a week. I think it should be separate to uc (ie pip)

But Lyra, am I right in thinking ESA doesnt exist anymore? So you can now only claim for PIP?

Contribution based ESA still exists and isn't part of UC.

@MyDcAreMarvel it wasn't possible to add her to our existing claim, we had to make a new one as it was a change in circumstances. Any change in circumstances had to be a new claim, all new claims had to be UC. We had no choice, although if we'd realised, we'd have stuck to Child Tax Credits and just not had DD on the claim at all.

@TabbyMumz You need to forget the link you are trying to make between PIP and SDP

SDP is/was a premium that people who are recognised by the system as being severely disabled enough to need income related ESA (or income support) and qualified for DLA or PIP got on top. Basically an extra amount of money to help their ongoing costs because of the severity of their situation

Pip is not a replacement for SDP. It’s an entirely separate thing

Under new style ESA as part of universal credit those premiums were removed. So it was taken to court and that’s why people on income related ESA that get the premiums atm cannot, legally, be moved into UC as it would be completely unfair as it would remove those premiums from them

I know disabled people who are now around £40 a week less off. When they have hospital appointments they now use the ambulance service, instead of taxis. So as many reports point out, the cost is being picked up by other departments, which cost more. It also means local taxi firms etc lose business. We need money circulating in our society.
Our high streets are dying as it is. My local hairdresser has had to cut staff and cafés etc are closing by the minute. There's trouble brewing between taxi firms because drivers are coming in from outside of our city. These are all originally from Pakistan/Bangladesh and it's going to blow up, because the work isn't there

Exactly. Its badly affecting the economy. Which means more people will lose their jobs. I have every sympathy for staff affected in this way, but for the businesses who did vote for this......my sympathy has a shelf life.

Tabby

I am a benefits advisor.
For those on ESA claiming standard rate PIP and not living with another adult SDP is awarded. Those claimants cannot legally claim UC due to the ruling at tribunal January 2019.

PIP is separate from UC.

Pea you were given the wrong information which sadly so many were and still are.
A change in circs such as adding a new child to tax credits does not mean a new claim. I supported a client to do this yesterday as it's only her second child and it was fine no issues.

it wasn't possible to add her to our existing claim, we had to make a new one as it was a change in circumstances. Any change in circumstances had to be a new claim, all new claims had to be UC. We had no choice, although if we'd realised, we'd have stuck to Child Tax Credits and just not had DD on the claim at all.

@PeapodBurgundy really sorry but you were given incorrect information. A new child is not a change of circumstances that’s triggers a claim to UC.

"I am a benefits advisor.
For those on ESA claiming standard rate PIP and not living with another adult SDP is awarded. Those claimants cannot legally claim UC due to the ruling at tribunal January 2019.

PIP is separate from UC."

Thanks, yes I know pip is separate to uc, as we claim it, and get the higher rate. I just wasnt aware there was something else you could claim if you are disabled. Although I doubt we could get anything else because my earnings are high.

Thanks, yes I know pip is separate to uc, as we claim it, and get the higher rate. I just wasnt aware there was something else you could claim if you are disabled.

Unless the other adults in the house are also claiming ESA or PIP no you cannot claim it.

@DumpedByText, your employer should be showing your pay date as the date you are normally paid, not the date you are actually paid.

That way, when the payroll data is uploaded to HMRC and shared with DWP, the second payment will be treated as being paid in the subsequent UC assessment period.

HMRC guidance is here www.gov.uk/government/publications/cwg2-further-guide-to-paye-and-national-insurance-contributions/2019-to-2020-employer-further-guide-to-paye-and-national-insurance-contributions--3

Para 1.8 of the general guidance is the relevant bit, it's quite a way down.

HMRC changed their guidance to overcome this problem with UC and employers should be following it!

Sorry ESA and PIP not or PIP.

@swishthecat To clarify, contribution-based ESA (ie based on your NICs, not means tested) isn’t an option for most new claimants as it’s a legacy benefit.

New Style ESA has replaced it and is part of the new UC system but you claim it separately to UC. Again, it is based on your NICs and is not means tested.

Income based ESA (ie means tested ESA) has been replaced by UC (limited capability for work & work related activity (LCWWRA) element).

To whoever was confused earlier - PIP replaced DLA a few years ago and is a non means-tested, disability benefit. It is nothing to do with UC. Many people lost out financially through the transition as a whole middle level of the award was removed. So if you had been on the middle rate of DLA, you were often put on to the lower rate of PIP or worse, awarded nothing. The amount of PIP decisions overturned on appeal at tribunal level continues to be huge, as the way it is processed and decisions are made vary hugely.

If you are on a legacy benefit and receive PIP, you may be entitled to an SDP if no one is claiming CA to look after you & you live alone (no other adults). If you receive any benefit with an SDP you should not claim UC, even if you have a change of circumstances. You should always seek benefits advice through Citizens Advice/Welfare Rights/whatever is available to you locally.

If you receive PIP and claim UC, even when you become entitled to the LCWWRA element, there is no potential entitlement to an SDP. It has simply been removed. It is a prime example of taking away from those who need it most.

Note: obvs this is just general overview of the benefits system

You might think it's unfair. I maintain that to participate in an immoral system is to collaborate and reproduce it. We all do this to some extent, but everyone has their personal limit. For the staff of the DWP, the current system has not gone beyond their personal morality. UC could not be enforced without the mass cooperation of the staff. They are collaborators. I decline to withdraw my opinion.

Man stages JC rooftop protest. "im starving"

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/man-roof-hours-job-centre-17687379

Nobody asked you to withdraw your opinion Name we just said it was unfair.

I have worked in the DWP office in my city and I have witnessed them helping and supporting claimants where possible. I would rather people like them work for the DWP.

I dislike bailiffs. I see them as nothing more than legal thugs. However it's a job that exists and I accept somebody has to do it. I do not wish harm on them or even hate them. I have a good enough grasp on reality to accept it's a job and somebody has to do it, its not personal.