Is this sort of thing common in London taxis?

[unhappytraveller]

I've name changed for this because it is outing. We got into a cab today in Covent Garden. I asked the driver if he could take us to King's Cross, he didn't answer me. I asked him if he had heard me okay. I'm mentioning this because I thought he was miserable and rude at the start of the journey.

Up to now I've always been really lucky with the London cabs I've got into. The driver has been unfailingly polite and always got me where I needed to be in good time. I think it's quite a skill. I use them on trips to London about two or three times a year. I tried Uber and found them utter rubbish. I've never had the incident that happened today occur before.

The driver drove up Upper Woburn Place, you can't turn right onto Euston Road, you have to loop round. But he was in the left hand lane, as if to go straight ahead. Just after crossing Euston Road he swerved in front of the car behind as if he had forgotten where he needed to be (to enable him to turn right and back onto Euston Road). The driver behind toots his horn as if to say "you could have given me a bit of warning before you cut in front of me". Cab driver then refused to move forward, even though the traffic was moving forward; this was to piss off the driver behind for tooting at him. I was checking my phone for a few seconds then I looked up when the driver from behind pulls up on our cab driver's left. Cab driver winds his window down and the guy from behind said "what you doing man?" He wasn't too crazy or aggressive .. obviously just wanting to let the cab driver know he was out of order. The cab driver WAS aggressive and really sarcastic. One of the things he said to the driver was "Aw, what you gona do, take it to the African Embassy?". The cab driver looked and spoke as if he was from India, or perhaps the Middle East or North Africa (I didn't get a really good look at him). The other driver was black. The other driver did not respond, he just looked sad, really. I think, but I don't know, that the cab driver was taunting the other driver with a racist jibe. It was all pretty unpleasant. My kids were just looking into their lap, wondering how it was going to end. The whole business took about 5 or 6 minutes, and we were just sitting in the back of the cab wondering how long it would go on for, whether we should just get out there and then whilst the cab was stationary and the shouting was going on (although that would have been dangerous, obviously) or whether we should tell him to get a move on. As it happened it did cost us the train we had booked, we were cutting it fine for time.

It was all just a bit shit really .. I thought London cab drivers had to work hard to get and keep their licence, and had a fairly good reputation.

Is this sort of thing a common occurrence now and I'm being naive, or should it not have happened?

Al the defensive Black Cab wives! I never said or indeed thought that black cab drivers set their own fares. I know they are regulated by TFL. They're still more expensive than Uber. I don't need to do any research thanks. I am comfortable with the level of risk involved in using Uber. It's at least as safe as walking home alone and much safer than getting in random cars like we did when we were students ..... I'd rather a driver be using up to date google maps with traffic and temporary road closures as well rather than The Knowledge. Each to their own. I'd get on a bus before I got a black cab these days.

I am not a black cab wife. I worked for TfL for a long while and am posting the facts I know to be true.

It's incredible that you won't do any research into your method of travelling, especially with them losing their licence and with the high profile cases that have been in the news, but that's your prerogative.

And that still doesn't answer the question above as to how you'd feel if what happened to black cab drivers (with regards to Uber) happened to you.

If you were undercut in your job, by someone inexperienced and unqualified but cheaper, how would you feel?
Would you shrug it off as 'oh well, technology and they're cheaper'?

I'd move on, diversify my skills and ultimately, get another job if necessary - like the coal miners had to and like I have had to in the past few years in IT with the advent of cloud computing, which is taking away most of the the traditional IT infrastructure jobs.

I'd feel progress, what can you do. Someone came along with a cheaper, easier product. Not necessarily better, but that's how the market works. This exact same thing is happening across the technology market with cheap, less experience people flooding the market from the Far East. There's no point railing against it - evolve or die. This is exactly what a large proportion of the UK IT workforce have done over the last few years. The ones that moaned and wailed about how cloud computing was shit and would never take off are now unemployed. I know many f them. They are referred to as dinosaurs.

What research?! I know Uber has issues, I know there are rouge drivers - like there always have been in minicabs and yes Worboys. I also know that statistically I am very unlikely to bump into any of them, especially travelling across London Bridge in the middle of the day in broad daylight, which is when the vast majority of my uber rides are, or travelling home at night with other people, friends or colleagues. I have also read that Uber are addressing some of the issue with zero hours contracts etc,or trying to, and these are problematic across all sectors (including my own).

I also know that virtually every Uber driver I speak to is happy with their lot - many of them are picking up shifts while pursuing other things - lots I speak to in London are students, mainly studying engineering and IT. It's a damn site better part time job than the shit I had to do to make ends meet when I was a student.

My research has also shown me that virtually every minicab and blackcab driver I have spoken to over the same period is doing nothing about the changing world around them except whining about Uber and slagging them off.

You just don’t like London cab drivers. You are supporting a company that uses every loophole to not pay tax in the UK, they are only cheap now as the investors are bankrolling them, as soon as they have driven out the competition their fares will rocket. Most of the drivers are taking home less than minimum wage and are now working in areas which they don’t have a licence for and are illegally plying for hire. You just like the cheaper option. Oh and not a wife either, just someone that likes to support a 350 year old tradition and likes the security of the driver knowing where they are going. You probably use Deliveroo as well, have you seen the video of the guy with the food in a public toilet?

@Justgorgeous that's okay though, because they're cheap!

Absolutely laughable that Uber drivers are doing it as a sideline whilst studying engineering or IT.
You seem to be forgetting I worked in very close proximity with them.
Uber are now offering drivers who've been with them a certain time discounts with Open University, but that's about it.
The majority of the drivers (in London anyway) fail the (basic) English language and geographical test at least 3 times before going on to pass.

I've seen complaints sent to us by members of the public (with proof) regarding Uber drivers concerning;

• How to evade TfL
• Which excuses to use to get out of fines and FPNs
• Carrying weapons (knives and hammers) within their cars for 'protection'
• Admitting to giving their contact details out for passengers to call them for 'private' journeys (which haven't been hired and therefore are not insured)
• Calling riders pigs, scum, whores, bitches, slags.

It goes on and on. Of course, you won't believe this (and I cannot provide the proof, complaints are subjected to data protection) but the information is out there.

I don't have anything particular against black cab drivers - though I have to say in 30 years of living near and working in London I have found them to be quite rude and dismissive, as a rule, though of course the odd exception. I also don't like being ripped off.

And when/if Uber go, Lyft or someone else will replace them. Or a traditional minicab firm that has moved to using an app like most of the cab firms where I live have. You're right, I don't really care much about keeping something going just because it's traditional, there has to be more to it. I used to like the old London traditional routemasters for example, but they clearly had to be replaced for safety, efficiency and environmental reasons (fairplay to the black cab drivers who have bought/leased electric cabs though).

I don't live in a Deliveroo area unfortunately but if I did, I would use the same restaurants that I have assessed to be hygenic and avoid the ones that aren't. You are aware that Deliveroo just collects and delivers food from a selection of restaurants that you can just go to yourself anyway right? It doesn't all come from some central warehouse full of people preparing all kinds of food with shitty hands :). If I did live in a Deliveroo area, I probably wouldn't use them actually as you pay a premium on top - I would just order a takeaway from the restaurant myself and go and collect it.

Well aware how Deliveroo works, he picked up the food and then took the food with him into a public toilet. Why do you think you are being ripped off ? So, you think TFL are ripping people off ? Do you think that Uber working in areas they have no licence in and touting for work on the street illegally is right? Are you happy supporting a company like Uber ?

Borrowing the cab from someone? That's what I mean about finding it all so odd. I thought each person had to have a licence?

It does happen. It became more common after SatNav made it easy to get around London without The Knowledge. About 10 years ago, there was a problem with licensed drivers "subletting" their cars to unlicensed drivers when they weren't using the cab to subsidise the cost of leasing it. I am guessing that Uber has made it less common nowadays though as it is cheaper to use your own car and drive it legally rather than "hire" a black cab and drive it unlicensed.

I think I clearly am :) Or Lyft or whoever.

Whoever are cheaper. Glad I don’t have friends or family like you. We all love London cabs. Long may they continue against the misery of the likes of Uber.

@Justgorgeous Thank you. In memory of my cousin who was a black cabbie and died very young, who was a thoroughly decent man and made a good life for his family. Fuck Uber

As a user of London’s roads, Black Cabbies’ standards of driving leave a lot to be desired. Running red lights, stopping where ever they like causing jams, same with u-turns. They have this attitude that they deserve to be on the roads more than anyone.

Trying to get one late at night can be a nightmare. Either they’ve gone home or where you want to go isn’t convenient for them. They need to up their game if they want to stay relevant, rather than whinging and getting the competition banned.

@ScarlettBlaize. Sorry to hear that. 💐Competition is right but not when it’s not on a level playing field. I just find the above comment ‘getting the competition banned’ just so frustrating. Uber lost their licence because they were deemed ‘unsafe’ nothing to do with London cabs.

Again, it's not the cab drivers getting the competition banned - they don't have any say in such matters.
Uber had the licence removed because of unsafe practices, causing TfL to believe that they're not fit and proper to be operating.

They've no problem with Addison Lee or other mini cab companies either. It's not competition that bothers them, competition has been around for years.
It's Uber who've come in with woeful standards of driving, safety and customer service that have annoyed them.
Crashes, driving the wrong way down one way streets, abrupt stopping in the middle of the road to pick up passengers and constantly looking at their phones to name a few.

I dealt with a complaint once where the passenger emailed in (with photographs) to say the driver was looking at their phone the entire journey, only glancing up at the road every now and then.

Their practices are unsafe.

The saying 'you've been Ubered didn't originate from nothing'

*'you've been Ubered' didn't originate from no-where, that should say.

The whole business took about 5 or 6 minutes - which you were paying for. Hackney Carriages charge 20p for every 24.4 seconds whilst stood (or crawling). The whole stopped & arguing saga cost you around £2.70. I would have deducted this from the fare and reported him.

Send his number to the Public Carriage Office - that's what they're there for.

I also judge drivers by how they treat more vulnerable road users - black cab drivers aren't known for treating cyclists well. And just because something is 'traditional' doesn't make it better

As a Londoner of 19 years standing, and a constant user of private hire vehicles in nearly all of that time I would now choose Uber every time. It's a fantastic service. I'm delighted to be able to avoid black cab drivers.