Are naturalised Brits really perceived "British" by the native population?

[SympatheticSwan]

Not being goady (I am not British myself, and a relatively fresh immigrant).
Asking after a comment made by an acquaintance (in respect of the British nationals evacuation mission from Wuhan). This particular person is definitely racist and proud of it (I know it from our previous conversations), but it made me think and I decided to ask MN which has quite enlightened membership.
Do you consider someone who, say, spent 6 years in the UK, naturalised and then moved back to their country of origin as British as, say, someone who was born here to parents who lived all their lives here (to draw a line somewhere)? Let's say, in the narrow context of diplomatic assistance / consular protection/ emergency repatriation or rescue missions?

“do people see naturalised British citizens as worthy of consular assistance as native born",

To this question, it’s a yes. But do you realise that many dual or multi citizens ARE native born British with inherited citizenship(s) of a other country/other countries?

For example, a person born in the U.K. to a US and U.K. parent will have both US and U.K. citizenship, and also be “native born” British. BUT if they go to the US and then get arrested for a crime. By international law, their US citizenship takes precedence and the U.K. government can do nothing in terms of consular or diplomatic assistance.

You are deliberately conflating the different treatment of dual/multi citizens with that of born vs naturalised acquisition of citizenship. The legal rights are the same whether you are born with or later naturalise as a citizen. The difference in treatment is not based on birth versus naturalisation, but being a single national versus a multi national person.

think you're confusing Shamima Begum with Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe.

Oops yes you are right I have confused the two.
Begum supposedly inherited Bangladeshi citizenship from her mother although her birth was never registered with Bangladesh (which is not required by Bangladeshi law in order to be a citizen which is the same set up as the U.K. with British citizens born abroad since around 2002).

If they are a British patriot, they are British.

"Because I agree with a PP, that in Ms Begum's case it was the press / public opinion that shaped the government reaction."

I don't fully agree with that. I think she was a smokescreen for the Torys letting in the male Isis fighters. It was Labour ministers who supported her returning and the Torys wanted to appear to take a hard line, but behind the scenes, weren't.

I consider them British for rescue missions etc. I don't agree with them being brought back to the UK if they've committed heinous crimes. But, Ideally I'd like the same applied to British Born depraved criminals. I also think that more citizenships should be revoked and them sent back to prison in their country of origin, in the case of child rapes, assaults/murder of women.

So, surprisingly (to me), I don't consider them completely equal.

Stroller15 DontCallUp DontCallUp why the heavy emphasis on being born here? It is meaningless. Is someone born here to immigrant parents 'more' British than someone who grew up here but was born abroad to ethnically British parents who were working abroad for a year? Is someone born here 1 year ago more British than someone who has lived here since they were 2 and are now an 89 year old 'naturalised' Brit who has never stepped out of the country after the age of 2? Is someone born here to ethnically British parents who then moved with their parents to America when they were a baby more British than someone who was born in America to American parents but has spent 50 years living here as a naturalised Brit? It is meaningless.

I consider anyone born or raised in Britain to be ‘British’ (if that’s how to chose to define themselves). If you have British citizenship but weren’t born or raised here I would probably see you as nonBritish but with the same rights. To be honest though I don’t spend any time in real life measuring the Britishness of people. If you have citizenship that’s good enough for me.

As worthy of consular assistance as native born Britons? Of course.

My parents were in the UK for about 20 years I think before taking British citizenship. India doesn’t allow dual nationality so they gave up citizenship. I was born in the UK before 1983 so parents could choose my citizenship as they were Indian.

Would my parents be “worthy” of consular help in the following (they would be legally entitled)
If one of my parents had moved back to India (leaving the other and me) eg to look after a relative

if they decided to retire to India (much warmer and could be cheaper)?

Does the 50 years they worked in the UK, lives they built, and community they were in matter or are they now Indians again?

@ga

are they now Indians again?

That depends on the Indian government. If the Indian government recognises their renouncement of Indian citizenship, then they would be retired in India as foreigners- British citizens.
If the Indian government decides not to accept their renouncement of citizenship, then they’d be retired in India as Indian citizens and international law would apply that the British government would have no authority or ability to assist them if they ran into trouble with the Indian government.

What Joe public or even the British Government thinks or perceives is irrelevant and has no impact. It is entirely up to the Indian government.

I think the reality is that people with two citizenships request consular help from the country best placed to help them in the circumstances they find themselves. For example if you were in Wuhan and wanted to leave, you had a British passport but hadn't lived in the UK for 10 years. Your other citizenship and the country you live in ordinarily, were not providing evacuation flights. If you wanted to leave you would be sensible and eligible to take advantage of your British passport.

China is not allowing those with Canadian landed immigrant status (Chinese dual citizens) vs citizenship to be evacuated with the others. Canada agrees and says that is part of the restrictions of a landed status.
This story was in the news last night, very interesting.

Yes of course they are 'perceived' British if they are a British citizen.

Of course Begum is British. I doubt if anyone would question it.

gamerwidow
I’m sad that whatever my parents do in this country, if you were asked to think about it you see them as nonBritish with rights.

(Not that it should matter, if they were builders, in business, take away workers or bus drivers- but actually spent about 40 years each in the NHS as doctors).

No.
If I moved to another country for a few years, and then left, I wouldn’t consider my nationality to have changed.
If I moved to another country, married a local, put down roots, learned the language, raised a family for half a lifetime, I’d probably think of myself as dual nationality.

If they are a British patriot, they are British.

For evacuation flights, we are obliged (by international agreement and common practice) to take other friendly nationalities

So EU (for now, during transition), NATO, Commonwealth (I think in that order) then anyone else with no means of exit on a case by case basis, until all seats taken

But do you realise that many dual or multi citizens ARE native born British with inherited citizenship(s) of a other country/other countries?
I do realise this, my own children are dual nationals, born British in the UK. They are still for a reason I cannot fully understand registered as ESL in the school.

I started asking myself these questions more and more as I technically can apply for naturalisation myself, and it seems to be a safe decision with Brexit etc. But for that I would need to abandon my birth nationality (the country does not allow dual citizenship), so I am sitting on the fence here - to be a first class citizen of my birth country or become somewhat a "value range" / second class Brit.
I do not measure "Britishness" of people. It is an opinion I heard and I was wondering whether there is any support for it. I.e. my opponent thinks that a Chinese person who moved to the UK as an adult, worked for 6 years and became a citizen is not "really" British if they then moved to China and settled permanently there, and why the taxpayer should pay blah blah blah. It was in respect of our joint ex-colleague who is exactly in this situation (they are not in Wuhan, but in one of the major continental cities and a lockdown is not a remote possibility).

I wasn’t referring so much to legal rights (legally they have full rights), but whether others think morally/instinctively - what gamerwidow said.

Judging by the never ending but where does he really come from? question I get about my British born DH I doubt it. Mind you no one ever questions my Britishness yet I’m not British. Maybe the answer is that naturalised Brits are accepted as British so long as they aren’t visibly not native.

@Mintjulia what you are referring to is domicile (which arises from your intention to permanently settle in a place), nationality is a question of paperwork first and foremost.

Yes I do. It never even crossed my mind till you asked the question.

I think "Britishness" is also a state of mind. But that doesn't impact on consular affairs: if you have British nationality, and are not also a national of whichever country you are in trouble and in need of assistance in, then you are of course entitled to avail yourself of assistance.

I was born a British subject and took British citizenship when I moved to the UK. I have no other nationality, nor entitlement to one. Nor do I have entitlement to live in the country where I was born, nor in the country of my ethnic origin (which is different again).

Reginabambina yes I get that too.
I can tell when people are genuinely interested in my background from context. Otherwise the conversation ends up -

where are you from? Carlisle (name changed) But where are you really from? Carlisle Where were you born? Newcastle. But where were your parents born? Depending on the circumstances I go for none of you business or if intimidated India.

I would consider myself british no matter how far I went for.how long. I have friends who have lived long times all over the world and I still think they are basically british, even though they might be mixed race, they are very anglicised.

But then iy doesn't bother me who is around me in that sense.

I do take exception to expression home grown white, no matter who says it. No, it wasn't you OP, as fastliving has stated. I was just commenting on other pp as well as your title and OP.

I do have genuine interest in ethic and cultural influences within my social and business group, so I wouldn't see harm in people asking me where I'm from, nor me asking others, as I know not all are where they initially might seem to be from.