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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To use Dad's debit card online to buy him things

65 replies

Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 13:09

Dad is elderly but still has capacity. My dad said I could buy him some things he can't get easily online. I have Amazon prime so it means free delivery to his address. Anyway I don't have P oA for dad, but he does have capacity (at present) Is it Ok for me to use his bank card to order him some stuff on Amazon and get it delivered, given that he has given me permission? It is stuff like socks and incontinence pants etc

OP posts:
cologne4711 · 01/02/2020 13:39

I did this too, I had my dad's card details and used to use them to do his Sainsburys online food deliveries.

Technically you are probably not meant to but's much easier. At some point you won't be able to do it anyway unless you also have his mobile phone or access to his emails once they introduce two factor authentication for purchases.

And POA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut for this. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get it for when you do need it though.

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 13:53

So I guess I am wondering if / when did did lose capacity only my brother could do this then due to having the P o A.

OP posts:
yeraballoon · 01/02/2020 13:55

@Tippexy op said she gets pip due to anxiety

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:01

Well PIp due to anxiety and also a major physical health condition as well. But the bit about managing finances was due to anxiety.

I mean i'm not even sure if would be Ok to be an Attorney with the PIP saying I struggle with financial decisions etc. So maybe that wouldn't be suitable for me anyway.

OP posts:
Mlou32 · 01/02/2020 14:02

Keep receipts in an envelope. You never know when you'll need them.

I did the same for my mother when she was in hospital for 3 months, I had her bank card and used it to buy her treats ie sweets, magazines, nighties, underwear etc while she was in. I bought stuff myself for her as you do when someone is in hospital the odd sweetie, diluting juice that kind of stuff, however as i was a student at the time my mum insisted that she wanted to pay for things herself. Then along came my extremely controlling manipulative aunt. She tried to exert control over my mother (who has a slight cognitive impairment) in regards to trying to push her to move to a flat across the road from my aunt when my mum didn't want to, trying to be the one who attended medical meetings etc. When I tried to get her to back off (at my mums request) she began to tell anyone who would listen (doctors and nurses in the hospital, the entire family, social work etc) that I had my mums bank card and was stealing from her.

It created huge issues, an investigation had to be done and I was cleared of any wrongdoing. However when my mum left the hospital, the investigation hadn't been completed and there is now a whole load of doctors and nurses that are still to this day under the impression that I am some kind of thief. To this day, this aunt goes about telling anyone sho will listen that I am a thief who was stealing from my mother. I should have gotten her done for slander at the time however I was in my early 20s and felt completely overwhelmed by it all. Too much time (over 10 years) has passed for me to do anything about it now I think.

But yeah, my point is always keep receipts for everything, no matter if it's a penny chew you buy for him. I realise that my case is in the extreme but these things do happen and you need to be able to defend yourself.

copperoliver · 01/02/2020 14:06

I would do POA too. To make sure you have an equal say. X you are doing nothing wrong helping your father. X

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:07

OK my brother is very sensible and level headed so don't think he would go around accusing me of stealing etc but just in case all the orders are easily seen on Amazon.

I don't actually live nearby he does so it would be him possibly using the card for snacks or whatever in the hospital. I think it will be Ok to leave it as it is. It's obvious from the orders it is stuff dad needs etc. and it is all being delivered to his home address, etc, it is a clear record.

OP posts:
maddiemookins16mum · 01/02/2020 14:08

I did my mums Sainsburys delivery for years using her card on my account.

QuantumEntanglement · 01/02/2020 14:09

Why not just create a separate amazon account for your dad (prime can be shared among several accounts) and use his card only on that account? That way you can’t accidentally default to his card when buying for yourself. Another benefit of a separate account is you’ll have a clear order history to fall back on showing that everything bought on that account was for your dad should anyone ever query it.

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:11

The slightly sad thing is I think Dad wanted me to be the P o A also. He spoke to me about it the other day. My brother and his wife seem keen for dad to move perhaps into more supported home type place. Dad wants to stay put. His warden says with support he probably could do. Not easy.

I mean what if you have it joint and the siblings don't agree over a course of action anyway. I know it means honouring the person's decisions and wishes.

OP posts:
Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:12

Oh I didn't realise could do that with Amazon. that is a good idea. Would in not pick up he lived at a different address though. I think can only share Prime at same address.

OP posts:
Myimaginarycathasfleas · 01/02/2020 14:12

I used my DM's card for years because that way there was an audit trail of what I'd spent, I used to go through her bank statement and the receipts with her every month. I also used to use her card in the bank machines to check on her balance, move money to and from her savings account and withdraw cash as needed for her. I was a signatory on her account so didn't use it for anything I couldn't do legitimately by other means, but it was more convenient this way.

It was with her consent and every penny could be accounted for.

POA is a better solution.

Mumdiva99 · 01/02/2020 14:12

The challenge is that you don't have overall knowledge of your dad's affairs. How do you know he can afford all these things you are buying him? (As well as the fact that technically no one but he should use his card). If you are in a position of needing PoA then as your brother suggested you need to be included. Otherwise leave it all to your brother to manage.

StCharlotte · 01/02/2020 14:16

OP Don't worry. No one is interested in the Attorneys as they are chosen by the "Donor" (in this case your Dad). Now your dad will have to be considered as to whether he has the capacity to sign up to a LPA but this is done by the "certificate provider", either someone who's known him for over two years or his solicitor who will have ways to telling.

In your case, can you trust your brother to do this stuff for your dad? If not then you should agree to become one of his Attorneys. You won't need to do everything for him but it is a useful tool.

Also, as others have said, put together a file - physical or digital - and keep records and receipts for everything.

You'll be fine Smile

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:22

I know he has at least £3000 in his current account and has minimal outgoings, he doesn't spend his pension etc so ti had built up. He is in sheltered housing form the council so not expensive and gets housing benefit for that. He should be getting attendance allowance too soon and gets pension credit.

OP posts:
Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:23

Yes I can trust my brother with that stuff, he is very sensible, I just thought it might help him if I was to share some of the hassle of buying the stuff online and share that you see.

OP posts:
Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:23

I think brother's wife is going to do it as well

OP posts:
StCharlotte · 01/02/2020 14:34

I think brother's wife is going to do it as well

Oh that's good. Sounds like they've got it sorted Smile

Spidey66 · 01/02/2020 14:38

Of course it’s fine.

My husband isn’t very computer savvy, he often asks me to book tickets etc online using his card.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/02/2020 14:54

You need poa as well op. Your brother may be sensible. But he may not always do best by your dad - not deliberately of course. I would be concerned at his attitude to you buying these goods tbh.

Gingernaut · 01/02/2020 14:55

Keep the receipts.

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 14:57

Well I don't know his attitude, to be honest it is probably fine. he said it was a good idea to think about an online shopping delivery when I mentioned it. My anxiety makes me assume the worst at times like if someone doesn't reply and say it is OK. He is busy at work and can't always reply to everything.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 01/02/2020 15:08

My brother and I have joint POA for our mum. We've split the 'duties' and he handles finances and I handle medical and any shopping. We (naturally) both have online access to all of Mum's accounts. Major decisions are joint as the POA requires both signatures. We trust each other implicitly but we set up the joint signatures to remove any possible doubt, not that either of us would expect anything to arise. We keep the other apprised of any expenses.

Even if your brother is sole POA, he can still ask you to make purchases for your dad. The role of POA is not to hold the reins so tightly that no one else is permitted to do anything for Dad, but to make decisions in Dad's best interests. If Brother feels it's in your dad's interest for you to do a bit of shopping for him, there's nothing wrong with that. If you are concerned, just be sure that you CC the Amazon email 'receipts' to your brother so he knows what you've purchased.

And being a POA isn't a 'job'. I'm coming at this from a US perspective of Disability Benefits, but acting as a POA for a relative would in no way be considered working. Nor would it be taxing enough to say that someone was fit for a 'real' job. Unless, I guess, one was handling someone multi-million £ fortune.

Original poster
Orangeblossom78 · 01/02/2020 15:10

Thanks, PIP is not about working, it is more the criteria, they have about money that bothered me. PIP assessors are very keen to look at any 'evidence' you don't meet them to take people off it. They ask about things like driving for example. So that is the issue.

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 01/02/2020 15:13

I was just thinking. Would you feel better if you got Dad his own Prime? It's not that expensive and it might give you more peace of mind. You and DB could both have the password so you'd know that DB could check on purchases if he felt the need.

Sometimes a bit of expenditure can buy a lot of peace of mind.

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