School damaged bike

[BertyFlanter]

I'm braving AIBU because I really don't think I am but willing to be told different. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible but 😬

So my son has started cycling to school, year 7. He got a new bike for Christmas that is his pride and joy and he looks after it.
He parks it in the bike shed at school all locked up. Apparently there is an issue with some kids just dumping their bikes and making it hard for everyone to park. So the deputy head has decided to make his point by stacking all the excess bikes on top of the properly parked ones to inconvenience the students. As a result my sons saddle has a slice right through it which is going to cost £60 to replace!

I called the school to discuss with said teacher, who admitted to me that he had done that but that if he paid for the repair it would set a precedent and he'd have to pay for all repairs. I pointed out it would only be the ones he was directly responsible for. After some back and forth that apparently no cctv covers the area to prove it was ok when locked away (there is cctv at my end to prove it was perfect setting off) he then decided he must have fallen off his bike and is just coincidentally blaming him. I suggested someone other than him (conflict of interest) investigate further and maybe ask the six kids who were with him all the way to school and check the cctv just in case. He came back an hour later having had one chat with my son for a minute and said it was more likely than not the bike had been damaged by him but that he still would not pay for the repair.
I now have to go to the chair of governors to make a formal complaint, but "he already knows" it won't do me any good.

AIBU to take this further? For clarity my calls are recorded (work phone) so I have all this available as proof, along with the separate call from the business manager who was adamant the staff never stack bikes for this reason, before she knew I'd had the chat with the deputy head.

TLDR: AIBU to expect the school to pay for damage as a result of their negligence?

I too am staggered that a Deputy Head suggested such a silly idea. For what purpose? What did his suggestion achieve?

And for him to then say what he did to you, is staggering!

BigRedFlower
As a teacher it doesn't sound like a wind up and I can well imagine someone making a a decision without thinking, especially when usually students have been repeatedly told what to do. The OP would be well within her rights to formally complain if no resolution happens.

However, as with any school thread some of the responses are hilariously over the top and the sort of things that become staff room legend for all the wrong reasons. I'm hoping by page 10 we'll have suggestions to go to the local paper with a sad face pointing at the bike, calling Ofsted etc.

By null over my tactics, I mean how I approach the situation. A perfectly reasonable thing to do rather than steam in in temper.

The gross misconduct referred to if he had lied about passing this through the headteacher. I'm sure if it came out that he had lied about speaking to her to cover his own arse that would be pretty bloody serious.

And yes a judge sits in small claims court. It's not only high courts you know. 🙄 And often the judge requests self representation only, as is the spirit of small claims.

Complain to the Head.

The deputy moved the bikes and is responsible for his stupidity.

Let any others make their own complaints.

Follow the usual complaints policy.

@ItsGoingTibiaK Thank you, that's a good idea. Best of both worlds there.

@LolaSmiles I think the local press has already been suggested 😁

The school didn't damage the bike, this one strutting bantom-cockerel of a deputy head did. There is a very special kind of school leadership team member who behaves like this, universally men trying to "make their mark" and get headships and not caring who they trample on to become supreme dictator of their own tiny principality of children and teachers...

This one individual should pay for the damage he's caused with his little ego driven initiative, morally - but he won't. You'll never see the £60.

Do everything by email from now on, so that you have a good poster trail, rather than verbal.

Quote him verbatim.
Mr Deputy said "xxx".

My skill is remembering conversations verbatim. I quote people and they seem shocked I remember what they said, word-for-word.

Paper trail.

Leave at own risk doesn't mean teacher cracks the shits and damages appropriately stacked bikes as pinisment against kids who don't park appropriately- that's bloody ridiculous. He's admitted liability, he lost his temper and has damaged your sons, appropriately stored bike, and admitted it. Board first, small claims court second(and also ask for costs as well as seat) that you can get a random replacement for £15 doesn't matter. Like for like is £60. You can buy an imitation diamond for pennies- does that mean you'd accept one if someone lost yours?! Attitude alone- I'd be going all the way. Not your fault kids abandon their bikes, and not appropriate punishment to damage kids property to make a point.

The school didn't damage the bike, this one strutting bantom-cockerel of a deputy head did. There is a very special kind of school leadership team member who behaves like this, universally men trying to "make their mark" and get headships and not caring who they trample on to become supreme dictator of their own tiny principality of children and teachers..
They're bellends, but they don't want to be headteachers because that would mean public accountability. They are aiming to have a senior sounding vague title that allows them to walk around pulling silly stunts to show they have authority, do very little work/generate initiatives that will add to classroom teacher and middle leader workload, teach 5 hours a week maximum and schedule oh-so-important meetings conveniently when they are down to be behaviour on call.

BertyFlanter
Damn. I missed that.
Obviously I believe you and think the deputy is at fault, but from a head handling this, i think the situation you're likely to have is that it's unclear if the damage was caused by the deputy's actions. It is essentially one word against the other and from a head's perspective school paying out for bike damage risks the precedent of other people being able to falsely claim that damage to their child's bike was school's responsibility.

I'd imagine the school won't pay for the damage under an "at your own risk" approach given that bikes can easily get scuffed, knocked down, wedged against others etc and be damaged in the bike sheds, and behind the scenes the deputy gets a bollocking and told not to pull any stunts like that again.

LolaSmiles actually that's probably about right.

I would be furious with the teacher. Yes, you leave bike at school at your own risk but to me that means it could get stolen, or danaged in bad weather or damaged by another child. You don't expect the Deputy Head to be damaging things. It sounds like a bery dangerous thing to do, as a child could be hurt by a pile of bikes falling over, plus why should the children who have stored their bikes safely and correctly be penalised. There should be more appropriate sanctions. And if the school has insufficient bike storage they need to take some responsibility for the problem.
However, I doubt that you will get anywhere I am afraid as it is going to be very difficult to prove anything without CCTV or an independent witness. I would still make a formal complaint though, as if nothing else it might make this teacher reconsider his behaviour and the bicycle storage problem be dealt with more appropriately.
In the meanwhile though, whatever you do, don't give Halfords £60 for a new saddle. £60 isn't a particularly expensive saddle in the great scheme of things but as a proportion of the cost of the bike it is ridiculous. There is absolutely no way that the saddle on a sub £300 Halfords bike is worth £60. Go to a proper local bike shop and ask their advice. You will probably be able to get something better for quite a lot less.

I wouldn’t tell them you transcribed it. I would stick to you have an exceptional memory recall.

Thanks @MAFIL you may be right and I'd be happy if they did sort the storage issue out as a result if nothing else. But I am still going to go ahead and give it a go 😄

I'm not convinced there isn't cctv, even if it's just him walking at the front of the school on the way to the bike sheds. No one has even looked. His friends (and all the other kids he doesn't know) are witness to the how the bikes were stacked and the DepH himself has admitted to ordering the stacking. So maybe not independent but also unlikely all of them would lie. They are only year 7 and all good kids.

My boss is a cyclist so can help, and I work opposite 2 independent bike shops. Never had the need to go in before 🤦🏻‍♀️ I'll get in there next week.

There are always exceptions of course Berty but as a general rule you tend to get much better service in independent bike shops. It isn't that uncommon for people buying higher end bikes to not like the saddle that is supplied and to swap it for their favourite type so you might find the independents have some decent saddles they are willing to sell at a reduced price. I sometimes wonder how our local shop makes any profit as when I go in the owner frequently says "Oh I think I've got something that would do out the back" and then I have to practically force him to take money off me. Of course not everyone is so generous but you have absolutely nothing to lose by asking. If they take trade ins there might be a suitable saddle on one of those. I hope you find something at a good price.

Most schools would have a complaints procedure that goes teacher>year head/ subject lead (pastoral vs academic)>deputy head>Head.

I would look for the complaints procedure and if you can't find it, ask the school. Alternatively, if you've already dealt with the DH, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to contact the HT by email and say "DH has admitted that he most likely damaged the saddle when he took , but refuses to replace the saddle that he damaged because it will set a precedent. DH says the next step is Governors because having talked to you, you agree with him. I just want to clarify that I should contact the CoG next, rather than talking to/ meeting with you.'

I'll have to see if I can find an email address for the head. He would only give me the general admin one, refused to give me a named email. Said he gets sent all the admin emails and he'll make sure it gets forwarded to the right person 🤔

I am a Chair of Governors and you I would be very unhappy if this happened in my school. You need to download or ask for a copy of the school complaints procedure. It will tell you to do the following:

Try to resolve your complaint with the teacher; if this is not successful then it goes to the HT

Raise a complaint with the HT; if you are not happy with this, then it goes to the Chair.

The Chair will investigate and give you a decision.

But even this you can appeal, right up to the SoS.

I am so annoyed for you and I would be expecting action to be taken internally with the person who did this.

OP You could direct your email to the office address asking for it to be forwarded directly to the head. Make it brief and don’t include all the details, asking the head to get back to you on the process, highlighting your concern that the deputy dealing with it Is a clear conflict of interest. Even if he does intercept and fail to pass it on properly (which is what I would suspect he did in the “conversation” he claimed to have had with he head) it’s annoying but he’s just digging himself a bigger hole as it will all come out as you proceed up the complaints tree.

Did you inform the school that they were being recorded?

There is no requirement for this in law.

I think that's really bad. Imagine if your son had damaged school property!
As for someone saying he shouldn't have an expensive saddle, well bullshit, why not, like you said it's his pride and joy.
When my son was a teen, police school advised the kids to wear cheap clothes, trainers and have cheap phones, because otherwise it would be their own fault if they got mugged (in the area at that time, gangs coming in) So basically none of us should own anything decent because of damage and theft.

The stupid thing about this is that in your position I'd probably be quite forgiving if the deputy head had taken a less obnoxious attitude towards you. If he'd just admitted it wasn't a well thought out idea which he wouldn't be repeating, apologised genuinely for the damage to DS's bike and offered to at least do something to remedy it I'd probably just accept the apology and let it go. It's the defensive, rude attitude and the dismissive tone which would really wind me up. I would challenge him as a matter of principle at this point whether or not I could afford to replace the saddle myself.

@InACheeseAndPickle you've hit the nail on the head there!
A little humility would have gone a long way.

Agree with @InACheeseAndPickle. Not setting a great example is he

Normally I would say you take things to school at own risk (I have to use a laptop which got smashed by sixth formers screwing about).
But YANBU as the damage was caused directly by a member of staffs actions.
I would call the head teacher or arrange to meet with them, as I find it suspect that the head hasn't chosen to call you, and as he has been less then forthcoming with information it may be possible he hasn't spoke to the head about it at all?