School damaged bike

[BertyFlanter]

I'm braving AIBU because I really don't think I am but willing to be told different. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible but 😬

So my son has started cycling to school, year 7. He got a new bike for Christmas that is his pride and joy and he looks after it.
He parks it in the bike shed at school all locked up. Apparently there is an issue with some kids just dumping their bikes and making it hard for everyone to park. So the deputy head has decided to make his point by stacking all the excess bikes on top of the properly parked ones to inconvenience the students. As a result my sons saddle has a slice right through it which is going to cost £60 to replace!

I called the school to discuss with said teacher, who admitted to me that he had done that but that if he paid for the repair it would set a precedent and he'd have to pay for all repairs. I pointed out it would only be the ones he was directly responsible for. After some back and forth that apparently no cctv covers the area to prove it was ok when locked away (there is cctv at my end to prove it was perfect setting off) he then decided he must have fallen off his bike and is just coincidentally blaming him. I suggested someone other than him (conflict of interest) investigate further and maybe ask the six kids who were with him all the way to school and check the cctv just in case. He came back an hour later having had one chat with my son for a minute and said it was more likely than not the bike had been damaged by him but that he still would not pay for the repair.
I now have to go to the chair of governors to make a formal complaint, but "he already knows" it won't do me any good.

AIBU to take this further? For clarity my calls are recorded (work phone) so I have all this available as proof, along with the separate call from the business manager who was adamant the staff never stack bikes for this reason, before she knew I'd had the chat with the deputy head.

TLDR: AIBU to expect the school to pay for damage as a result of their negligence?

Apparently one other boys bike was also damaged, one of the boys who travels with DS and parked next to him. I don't have his mums number but I've texted a friend to see if she can pass my number on.

There are some great points here and I would hope to appeal to the schools moral compass but I think it will come down to the time they will need to spend dealing vs the cost that will be my strongest argument.

@Hingeandbracket I've explained that a couple of posts later, the saddle isn't fancy it is bog standard. Just expensive to replace because they aren't available retail. But I've had some links to websites and I'll probably pop into my local bike shop with the seat to price an equivalent.

YANBU I would be pursuing this - it was stupid thing to do on the part of the teacher. They’re welcome to make a point and discipline the wrong-doers but this was not the way.

And for what it’s worth, YANBU for your son for having an expensive saddle. Cheaper than a car. Well done to him for cycling to school.

Ask your son if there is a sign saying that the school will not take any responsibility for damage done to bikes that are parked there, if not, remind the deputy head that you do have a recording of him admitting pilling the bikes up.

I would try and get together a few people if you can. And write a letter from all of you. This dick should have a major dressing down. At least.

Men's saddles are all massively uncomfortable IME but women's sit bones are different so based on reviews and around that price, I'd get him to have a look at these if it's a road bike

www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-ti-road-saddle/
www.wiggle.co.uk/prime-ti-endurance-road-saddle/

Or maybe this if it's a mountain bike www.wiggle.co.uk/bioflex-ozone-saddle/

Sounds to me like the deputy head acted in a fit of temper and is now up to his oxters in a massive arse covering exercise. He was negligent and irresponsible - what if the stack had fallen on a child? Is the bike covered under your home insurance? They might be able to liaise with the school's insurance company. Or perhaps suggest that either the deputy head pays or gives you the school's insurance policy details.

The DepH said there is a sign in front of the school. If there is one at the back where the bike sheds are I don't know, but regardless I don't think that covers what he's done.
As the poster below said, DS wouldn't get away with unintentionally damaging a teachers car.

As an aside, if a sign like that effectively forms a contract (like parking restriction signs) then a contract can't be entered into with a minor 🤔 something else for me to ponder on.

I'd point out that you have a recording of him admitting liability and that you are perfectly willing to take him/the school to small claims court over it. I might even go as far as seeing if a local paper might name and shame the school. They dont like bad publicity.

The point is it’s deliberate vandalism

No teacher can just destroy a pupils belongings for any spurious reason. Because it was deliberate

What's the price range for a comfy seat? I can see the same shape, but I don't want to say oh I can get one for 15 quid if it arrives and is rubbish.

You can order with wiggle and take to shop to make sure it fits, dont obviously fit it if you don’t think it’s going to be ok. Wiggle have a great easy returns system which is why I use them

I think the page I linked to ranged from £10 - £120ish

Again, don't get bogged down in threatening to sue the teacher. The school is vicariously responsible for negligent acts performed by him in the course of his employment. Point this out to the governors (or whoever, via the complaints procedure) and explain that if they don't replace the saddle you'll take them to the Small Claims court.

The 'precedent' argument is rubbish. If they don't want to set a precedent for compensating parents for damage caused by the negligence of their employees then they simply need to have a word with their employees and explain that acts of stupidity like this one expose the school to liability.

And if the saddle costs £60 to replace then so be it! I can't see a District Judge concluding that you should have bought a cheap saddle specially for your child to ride his bike to school 🙄

I think if you're clear, polite and firm there's a good chance that they'll realise you're not letting it go, and pay up without the need for you to issue proceedings. Do you think it's likely they'd want to be involved in S court case based on these facts? I don't think so.

Stand firm, OP, and take it up with the employer. That's why the law of vicarious liability exists.

To be honest the bike manufacturer is having a lol at £60 for a saddle in a £300 bike. It’s not proportional 🧐

Complain in writing to the Head and the Chair of Governors. Is it a local authority school or an academy? Complain to either the LA or the Academy Trust.

Dep Head sounds like a twat.

The deputy head is trying to put you off taking it any further by making out it won’t get you anywhere because they don’t want you to take it any further.
Go straight to the head and hear what they have to say.

When he called me back he said that he'd spoken to the head and she agreed with him. On pushing him, chair of governors was the next move.
Part of me is very suspicious she didn't call me herself when I'd already pointed out the conflict of interests and part of me thinks surely no one is that stupid to lie about it!

I'm wary to show my hand with regards to having the recordings, as if he has fibbed I'd like him to dig a deeper hole! On the other hand my complaint will be much better with a transcript, and if he is fibbing I'd guess that would be enough already for gross misconduct.

I would worry about recording tbh
It strikes me as something that would not be allowed.

Did you inform the school that they were being recorded?

You really need to find another school, this one clearly isn't for you.

I'd guess that would be enough already for gross misconduct.

You are way over obsessed with this.
We wonder why there is a national teaching shortage.

Threaten with small claims court. That'll make them cough up.

YANBU. I would be astonished if the school does not pay for this. Exhaust the complaints procedure. Teachers get things wrong. Schools know this. £60 is nothing to them. Be firm but polite and persist.

It's not a crime to record conversations providing you are a party to the conversation, don't disclose to a third party, and is only for your own use.

In this case i can use it to transcribe the conversation and with DepH permission can disclose the actual recording. Of course if he refuses it would look suspicious.
A judge may look unfavourably on it, but as it isn't illegal could not be punitive because of it.
I'm glad it's Friday though as it gives me the weekend to mull over my tactics.

This must be a wind up thread.

"mull over your tactics"

"gross misconduct" so you think that they should be dismissed?

"a judge" really? Have you got enough money to go up against teaching union defending their member?

@CremantorLimoux you didn't answer earlier. Are you him?

How is the school not for me? This isn't about my son as a pupil, it's between me and the school. It would be the same procedure if I was eg a neighbour of the school and they sprayed weed killer on their fields and it got into my garden. Unintentional negligence and nothing to do with student/school relationship.

And I don't need to inform the school they were being recorded. Chances are their phone lines are also recorded so what's your point.

I'd rather there was a shortage of teachers like this than an an abundant supply of them. There are plenty of great teachers at this school who wouldn't behave like this. Every school can have a bad apple and every teacher can have a bad day. You never know, he may change his tune with a little time to think about it over the weekend.

I’d keep your powder dry and let the bastard dig his hole deeper. You can make a very good case just using some select quotations (“Mr X then told me that it was more likely than not that he had in fact caused the damage, but would not be paying to repair the damaged item”) without disclosing that you have him recorded. You can then use the transcript later.

(If you can’t tell, I quite enjoy a good battle like this. I’m one of the few people who smiles when they get a private parking ticket, as it gives me a chance to run rings round the parking company. Apologies if you don’t and would prefer to just ignore my advice!)